All Cuss Words in DMC

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wishingW3L

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Re:All Cuss Words in DMC - Thursday, January 17, 2013 1:57 PM ( #21 )
SmokeyMcBear


well of course thats true, you just made my point. People defending this game are funny, as are the people bashing it. The feelings are so strong in this thread, its overwhelming.





lol
redDevil87

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Re:All Cuss Words in DMC - Thursday, January 17, 2013 1:58 PM ( #22 )
@ZNP 

See me after class. 
I asked you to reread the discussion, the points were clearly made. They were easy to understand and the comparisons for the attitude of a character (dante) which the game is based upon, compared to a character that doesn't add anything to the game was easy to see. 

Dante swears because his attitude has always been like that. He's a rebel/anti-hero. The swearing reflects this. Someone swears at him, he swears back..

Rico swears simply because GG are poor story tellers. They watched a bunch of action movies during script writing and decided to make a character who always swears, like in most action films, in an attempt to add some form of emotion to the story. It became annoying, crude and brought down the quality of the story and writing.

You failed the task given to you. 

F -

@Smokey

I expect better of you.

F -


ZombieNinjaPanda

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Re:All Cuss Words in DMC - Thursday, January 17, 2013 2:05 PM ( #23 )
redDevil87


@ZNP 

See me after class. 
I asked you to reread the discussion, the points were clearly made. They were easy to understand and the comparisons for the attitude of a character (dante) which the game is based upon, compared to a character that doesn't add anything to the game was easy to see. 

Dante swears because his attitude has always been like that. He's a rebel/anti-hero. The swearing reflects this. Someone swears at him, he swears back..

Rico swears simply because GG are poor story tellers. They watched a bunch of action movies during script writing and decided to make a character who always swears, like in most action films, in an attempt to add some form of emotion to the story. It became annoying, crude and brought down the quality of the story and writing.

You failed the task given to you. 




Well if you were a teacher I'd have you fired immediately. One for not being able to draw distinct similarities between two different subjects and two for that last paragraph you wrote. GG are bad storytellers but Ninja Theory aren't? I understand games aren't known for their story lines but if this is what we're calling good stories now then I ****ing give up on this. 

Also your examples are laughable at best. One character is written like **** it's fine because he's a ****ty person. The other character is written like ****, it isn't fine because he's a ****ty person. I just summarized your entire argument for you to re-read and see why what your double standards are wonderful. 

Satanas

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Re:All Cuss Words in DMC - Thursday, January 17, 2013 2:07 PM ( #24 )
ZombieNinjaPanda


Satanas


ZombieNinjaPanda


redDevil87


There's nothing wrong with the swearing, he's fighting demons and monsters who are about to murder him and destroy all of mankind. You expect him to be polite and courteous? "Halt demon, let us engage in a bout of fisticuffs!" 

Rico sucked because he used about 5 swear words every sentence, plus his general attitude stank. We knew sh!t was going down, we didn't need some ass-hole screaming and swearing right into our ears.



Wait, you're defending one game, yet the other game that does the same exact thing you're saying isn't fine? Come on now.



I think you missed his point. Rico was an idiot of a character (and part of a cruddy game to boot). He was superfluous

DmC is defined by grit and its attitude, and its swearing is appropriate, nowhere near the level of that Rogue game I used as an example. It fits fine. People love hating this game and I think it's absolutely hilarious that in actuality, it's a really good game and put the series back on the mark



I'm not gonna comment on the rest of your sentence, you should know by now what I think, what other fans think too so stop trying to entice me into an argument with you. Besides that's wrong it does none of what you said.

So wait, one game that is defined by grit and attitude is fine, but the other game which is ALSO defined by grit and attitude isn't fine? Gotcha.

Gotta love dem double standards.



I just wanted to confirm that you were one of the "Ninja Theory is ruining DmC" bunch with a simple bait there. Sorry for the lowbrow tactics, but I understand why you don't see red's point now.



well of course thats true, you just made my point. People defending this game are funny, as are the people bashing it. The feelings are so strong in this thread, its overwhelming.



I agree. I'm happy the game is good even though I don't like Ninja Theory, maybe I just don't like DMC fans.
<message edited by Satanas on Thursday, January 17, 2013 2:08 PM>
SmokeyMcBear

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Re:All Cuss Words in DMC - Thursday, January 17, 2013 2:07 PM ( #25 )
the emotions so strong, the juvenile testosterone is strong in this thread.


All work and no play.. makes odion go something something
ZombieNinjaPanda

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Re:All Cuss Words in DMC - Thursday, January 17, 2013 2:11 PM ( #26 )
@Satanas

It's very clear what Red is saying. That doesn't make it any less wrong. One character is written as an ass and it's bad because he's an ass. Another character is written like an ass and it's fine because "HE'S SUPPOSED TO BE AN ass COME ON DONT YOU GET IT"!
People say the hate for this game is unjustified, what about the defense for this game? If you're gonna back something, have some consistency at least.



Turns out that word is censored. Who knew.


@Smokey

Why do you senior citizens get off on watching younger folks argue?
<message edited by ZombieNinjaPanda on Thursday, January 17, 2013 2:13 PM>

Satanas

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Re:All Cuss Words in DMC - Thursday, January 17, 2013 2:13 PM ( #27 )
ZombieNinjaPanda


@Satanas

It's very clear what Red is saying. That doesn't make it any less wrong. One character is written as an **** and it's bad because he's an ****. Another character is written like an **** and it's fine because "HE'S SUPPOSED TO BE AN **** COME ON DONT YOU GET IT"!
People say the hate for this game is unjustified, what about the defense for this game? If you're gonna back something, have some consistency at least.



Ok, let's forget about swearing.

Rico is a sh!tty character from a sh!tty game.

New Dante is a questionable character from a solid game.

They both swear a lot, one of them terribly out of context, and the other in line with the rest of the characters in the game. One of them is a messed up teenager, a demographic that tends to swear a lot mind you, and one of them is simply a blathering idiot.
SmokeyMcBear

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Re:All Cuss Words in DMC - Thursday, January 17, 2013 2:20 PM ( #28 )
i thought killzone 2 had a better metacritic score? Call the game crap and the argument becomes valid, excellent work there Lou. I love how when people don't have an actual argument, it turns into this crap and this is not crap, so its ok. Damn you schools and your inability to teach kids these days!!!!


All work and no play.. makes odion go something something
ZombieNinjaPanda

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Re:All Cuss Words in DMC - Thursday, January 17, 2013 2:21 PM ( #29 )
Satanas


ZombieNinjaPanda


@Satanas

It's very clear what Red is saying. That doesn't make it any less wrong. One character is written as an **** and it's bad because he's an ****. Another character is written like an **** and it's fine because "HE'S SUPPOSED TO BE AN **** COME ON DONT YOU GET IT"!
People say the hate for this game is unjustified, what about the defense for this game? If you're gonna back something, have some consistency at least.



Ok, let's forget about swearing.

Rico is a sh!tty character from a sh!tty game.

New Dante is a questionable character from a solid game.

They both swear a lot, one of them terribly out of context, and the other in line with the rest of the characters in the game. One of them is a messed up teenager, a demographic that tends to swear a lot mind you, and one of them is simply a blathering idiot.



Interesting.

Rico is a questionable character from a solid game.

New Dante is a sht character from a questionable game.

They both swear a lot, one of them terribly out of context, and the other in line with the rest of the characters in the game. One of them is a try hard teenager, a demographic that tends to swear a lot mind you, and the other is a war torn soldier has had to deal with the difficulties and war and how it has affected his life.


Do you understand yet why everything is this thread is a hilarious double standard? You can't excuse one terribly written character while condemning another one. It doesn't work like that. You either call out both for their issues or none at all. And both characters are horribly, horribly written. Not to mention what you and I both wrote in terms of which game is good or bad are opinions. What is not an opinion is that both characters sound like they were written by a 14 year old who just learned how to cuss. But now you should understand why this game gets so much "hate" (I hate using this word. We are not ****ty rappers who cannot accept criticism). People are so vehemently defending it while condemning other things which do the exact same.

Satanas

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Re:All Cuss Words in DMC - Thursday, January 17, 2013 2:24 PM ( #30 )
ZombieNinjaPanda


Interesting.

Rico is a questionable character from a solid game.

New Dante is a sht character from a questionable game.

They both swear a lot, one of them terribly out of context, and the other in line with the rest of the characters in the game. One of them is a try hard teenager, a demographic that tends to swear a lot mind you, and the other is a war torn soldier has had to deal with the difficulties and war and how it has affected his life.


Do you understand yet why everything is this thread is a hilarious double standard? You can't excuse one terribly written character while condemning another one. It doesn't work like that. You either call out both for their issues or none at all. And both characters are horribly, horribly written. Not to mention what you and I both wrote in terms of which game is good or bad are opinions. What is not an opinion is that both characters sound like they were written by a 14 year old who just learned how to cuss. But now you should understand why this game gets so much "hate" (I hate using this word. We are not ****ty rappers who cannot accept criticism). People are so vehemently defending it while condemning other things which do the exact same.



If you are trying to convince me that Rico is a good character then I must shake my head. He was a blight on a game that wasn't good to begin with.


New Dante is exactly as most other characters in that game are. You are free to dislike the entire game for that reason if you should choose to, but unlike Rico, he is not an anomaly.


I totally understand why people think this is a "bad" game and I laugh at how it actually isn't. I am an action game fan with very particular tastes, and other than DMC1 I don't pay the series much attention. I think it would be fair to criticize the game for its lack of technical combat, alas no one really does, they just criticize it because they aren't happy with the new direction and I do believe that to be absolutely true.
<message edited by Satanas on Thursday, January 17, 2013 2:27 PM>
SmokeyMcBear

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Re:All Cuss Words in DMC - Thursday, January 17, 2013 2:24 PM ( #31 )
dammit zombie, thats a rational coherent well written argument, wtf is wrong with you?!?!?! edit, then satanas has go back to irrational opinionated thought.. oh well.
<message edited by SmokeyMcBear on Thursday, January 17, 2013 2:26 PM>


All work and no play.. makes odion go something something
redDevil87

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Re:All Cuss Words in DMC - Thursday, January 17, 2013 2:26 PM ( #32 )
ZombieNinjaPanda


redDevil87


@ZNP 

See me after class. 
I asked you to reread the discussion, the points were clearly made. They were easy to understand and the comparisons for the attitude of a character (dante) which the game is based upon, compared to a character that doesn't add anything to the game was easy to see. 

Dante swears because his attitude has always been like that. He's a rebel/anti-hero. The swearing reflects this. Someone swears at him, he swears back..

Rico swears simply because GG are poor story tellers. They watched a bunch of action movies during script writing and decided to make a character who always swears, like in most action films, in an attempt to add some form of emotion to the story. It became annoying, crude and brought down the quality of the story and writing.

You failed the task given to you. 




Well if you were a teacher I'd have you fired immediately. One for not being able to draw distinct similarities between two different subjects and two for that last paragraph you wrote. GG are bad storytellers but Ninja Theory aren't? I understand games aren't known for their story lines but if this is what we're calling good stories now then I ****ing give up on this. 

Also your examples are laughable at best. One character is written like **** it's fine because he's a ****ty person. The other character is written like ****, it isn't fine because he's a ****ty person. I just summarized your entire argument for you to re-read and see why what your double standards are wonderful. 
 


Don't know why your talking about Ninja Theory's storytelling, i never mentioned it.

Like i said Dante's writing reflects his new character, whether you think it's sh*t writing or not. It's an attempt by Ninja theory to make their own Dante, a new look and a new attitude. Swearing and cussing is part of what makes NT's Dante their own. They've tried to mould a character from the ground up, give him his own personality that they feel fits the surrounding world and tone of the overall game. They took the old concept of Dante, the rebellious attitude, and just added a Western spin on it. Bottom line is that they've made an attempt to create a character, swearing is just part of it.

This is what GG did with Killzone 2:

GG member: "We need to build an team ISA team."

GG member 2: "I know, lets have a range of attitudes within the group. Like you see in action films like Saving Private Ryan, Predator, Platoon and all those other Hollywood films. Sev is the nice guy, the main protagonist. Garza is the smarta**, a wise cracker, the joker of the group. Natco is the demolition expert, the guy who blows stuff up. Rico is the rebel, the one with the bad attitude, he's a reliability. Four characters who are all different"

That's all GG did. They blatantly took that basic premise and ran with it. They made Rico swear profusely because that's the only way they felt they could show off a character with "bad rebellious attitude." There's no attempt at creating a character here, NT have at least tried. 


Edit: I have no idea why your're getting so worked up over this. The writing in DMC games has always been sh*t. Your acting like Ninja Theory have somehow sullied the franchise with their storytelling when it's always been complete garbage from day one.


<message edited by redDevil87 on Thursday, January 17, 2013 2:31 PM>

Satanas

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Re:All Cuss Words in DMC - Thursday, January 17, 2013 2:27 PM ( #33 )
SmokeyMcBear


dammit zombie, thats a rational coherent well written argument, wtf is wrong with you?!?!?! edit, then satanas has go back to irrational opinionated thought.. oh well.



You must be cheesed that I ragged on Killzone 2. It was an awful game. Terrible, slidey controls, and a lacklustre singleplayer experience muddied with load times and a crappy end game boss. And unmemorable characters. It was pretty though, that's what matters right?


Again, Red, I agree completely.
<message edited by Satanas on Thursday, January 17, 2013 2:31 PM>
SmokeyMcBear

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Re:All Cuss Words in DMC - Thursday, January 17, 2013 2:30 PM ( #34 )
ah the emotion and feelings..., its just too much.


All work and no play.. makes odion go something something
Satanas

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Re:All Cuss Words in DMC - Thursday, January 17, 2013 2:31 PM ( #35 )
SmokeyMcBear


ah the emotion and feelings..., its just too much.



I am sorry that I dislike a game you feel so dearly for, but it had to be said smokey. Terrible games cannot be excused simply because they look nice


I am going to again emphasize that I would not purchase DmC myself because I feel the combat is too simplified compared to Japanese action titles like NG, Bayonetta or DMC. I have the same problem with GOW, though that doesn't make GOW a bad game, just one I don't wish to play
<message edited by Satanas on Thursday, January 17, 2013 2:33 PM>
ZombieNinjaPanda

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Re:All Cuss Words in DMC - Thursday, January 17, 2013 2:35 PM ( #36 )
SmokeyMcBear


dammit zombie, thats a rational coherent well written argument, wtf is wrong with you?!?!?! edit, then satanas has go back to irrational opinionated thought.. oh well.



I can be rational when I want to be. I choose not to be most of the time because I expect people to see their flaws and inconsistencies. It turns out that that isn't the case 99% of the time, hence why most of my posts aren't rational.




@Santanas


So, having one bad character in a game isn't fine. Having an entire cast of terribly written characters with horrible lines and personalities is alright, as long as the characters are all terrible together? Do you understand what you're saying?

Also people that dislike the game, do so because the combat is a simplified version of previous iterations, it has unnecessary controls (two dodge buttons??) it has segments which force you to use a certain weapon on enemies, which previous iterations didn't do. Instead they focused on allowing you freedom of control and freedom of fighting, letting you choose what styles to use and how to chain your combos. It's laughably easy to get SSS while in previous games it was Dark Souls levels of hard to achieve The platforming is bland and consists if "Use your chain to pull this over or pull over there, K done".   EDIT: I just saw your other post, so we are in agreeance?? in opinion on gameplay, but the next paragraph goes back on topic.


There's some reasoning I gave you for gameplay, but this is a conversation about the characters. Again, refer back to my previous sentence. Just because an entire cast of characters are written terribly (why are Dante and Vergil talking about their penis sizes? It doesn't even fit the scene) doesn't excuse that cast of characters from being written badly. It'd be like saying "Oh, Tarantino (Tameem is leagues away from anywhere near Tarantino, this is just an example) wrote some of the worst cast of characters with dialogue and personalities ever, but it's okay because it's Tarantino and the characters are supposed to be horribly written.
<message edited by ZombieNinjaPanda on Thursday, January 17, 2013 2:38 PM>

Satanas

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Re:All Cuss Words in DMC - Thursday, January 17, 2013 2:40 PM ( #37 )
ZombieNinjaPanda



So, having one bad character in a game isn't fine. Having an entire cast of terribly written characters with horrible lines and personalities is alright, as long as the characters are all terrible together? Do you understand what you're saying?

Also people that dislike the game, do so because the combat is a simplified version of previous iterations, it has unnecessary controls (two dodge buttons??) it has segments which force you to use a certain weapon on enemies, which previous iterations didn't do. Instead they focused on allowing you freedom of control and freedom of fighting, letting you choose what styles to use and how to chain your combos. It's laughably easy to get SSS while in previous games it was Dark Souls levels of hard to achieve The platforming is bland and consists if "Use your chain to pull this over or pull over there, K done".  


There's some reasoning I gave you for gameplay, but this is a conversation about the characters. Again, refer back to my previous sentence. Just because an entire cast of characters are written terribly (why are Dante and Vergil talking about their penis sizes? It doesn't even fit the scene) doesn't excuse that cast of characters from being written badly. It'd be like saying "Oh, Tarantino (Tameem is leagues away from anywhere near Tarantino, this is just an example) wrote some of the worst cast of characters with dialogue and personalities ever, but it's okay because it's Tarantino and the characters are supposed to be horribly written.
 

Who said every DmC character is terrible?

Ok, here's the problem. You're assuming swearing = terrible. I said let's get past swearing and not talk about it for a second. Rico is a terrible character. The characters in the new DmC are actually generally convincing, from what I've seen myself and heard straight from most reviewers. It's actually better than the awful one-liners Dante has in the older DMCs, swearing or not. I think the issue is you're a bit too hung up on the swearing part - I am just trying to say that I believe Rico to be a terrible, monotonous, crappy character.

If you actually hate the entire DmC cast, well, ok, but I'd say you're in a minority. The game is doing well in the story department critically.

As for the gameplay - all valid concerns. It works in its own right, I'd say, but I can get the irritation for diehard fans (which I am not). As for the story and characters, that I won't be able to understand. Ninja Theory did their own thing here, and critically, that element is extremely positively received, gameplay aside.

The pure technicality drop is what would turn me off. I'm alright with adapting to new mechanics if a game remains technical.


ZombieNinjaPanda

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Re:All Cuss Words in DMC - Thursday, January 17, 2013 2:49 PM ( #38 )
Satanas


ZombieNinjaPanda



So, having one bad character in a game isn't fine. Having an entire cast of terribly written characters with horrible lines and personalities is alright, as long as the characters are all terrible together? Do you understand what you're saying?

Also people that dislike the game, do so because the combat is a simplified version of previous iterations, it has unnecessary controls (two dodge buttons??) it has segments which force you to use a certain weapon on enemies, which previous iterations didn't do. Instead they focused on allowing you freedom of control and freedom of fighting, letting you choose what styles to use and how to chain your combos. It's laughably easy to get SSS while in previous games it was Dark Souls levels of hard to achieve The platforming is bland and consists if "Use your chain to pull this over or pull over there, K done".  


There's some reasoning I gave you for gameplay, but this is a conversation about the characters. Again, refer back to my previous sentence. Just because an entire cast of characters are written terribly (why are Dante and Vergil talking about their penis sizes? It doesn't even fit the scene) doesn't excuse that cast of characters from being written badly. It'd be like saying "Oh, Tarantino (Tameem is leagues away from anywhere near Tarantino, this is just an example) wrote some of the worst cast of characters with dialogue and personalities ever, but it's okay because it's Tarantino and the characters are supposed to be horribly written.
 

Who said every DmC character is terrible?

Ok, here's the problem. You're assuming swearing = terrible. I said let's get past swearing and not talk about it for a second. Rico is a terrible character. The characters in the new DmC are actually generally convincing, from what I've seen myself and heard straight from most reviewers. It's actually better than the awful one-liners Dante has in the older DMCs, swearing or not. I think the issue is you're a bit too hung up on the swearing part - I am just trying to say that I believe Rico to be a terrible, monotonous, crappy character.

If you actually hate the entire DmC cast, well, ok, but I'd say you're in a minority. The game is doing well in the story department critically.

 


I never once said anything about the swearing in that post. I even referenced a line from the game for you. I think you're failing to understand that the real Dante's character was also written to have terrible one liners, so over the topic and idiotic that it pokes fun at at where it draws its inspirations from; many of the cheesy over the top animes that people watch. But at least it was over the top, it never got to the point where it was bad. 


If you've watched some real reviewers takes on the game (look at Adam Sessler and people such as Northernlion) many of them complained about the story and cast of the game, so I'm certain I'm not in the minority. 


But, I've sat through a whole playthrough of the game. I'm not an idiot who blindly hates something without experiencing it in some way. I've seen it to the end, and what I saw was a poorly written game by a man with terrible writing skills (it's been confirmed that the lead of Ninja Theory Tameem, wrote the entire game. He believes that the writing is on par with hollywood movies, this a direct quote from him). But do I have to start quoting lines from the game for you?


<message edited by ZombieNinjaPanda on Thursday, January 17, 2013 2:54 PM>

TheGOODKyle

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Re:All Cuss Words in DMC - Thursday, January 17, 2013 3:01 PM ( #39 )
couple of keyboard warriors here
Satanas

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Re:All Cuss Words in DMC - Thursday, January 17, 2013 3:20 PM ( #40 )
ZombieNinjaPanda



I never once said anything about the swearing in that post. I even referenced a line from the game for you. I think you're failing to understand that the real Dante's character was also written to have terrible one liners, so over the topic and idiotic that it pokes fun at at where it draws its inspirations from; many of the cheesy over the top animes that people watch. But at least it was over the top, it never got to the point where it was bad. 


If you've watched some real reviewers takes on the game (look at Adam Sessler and people such as Northernlion) many of them complained about the story and cast of the game, so I'm certain I'm not in the minority. 


But, I've sat through a whole playthrough of the game. I'm not an idiot who blindly hates something without experiencing it in some way. I've seen it to the end, and what I saw was a poorly written game by a man with terrible writing skills (it's been confirmed that the lead of Ninja Theory Tameem, wrote the entire game. He believes that the writing is on par with hollywood movies, this a direct quote from him). But do I have to start quoting lines from the game for you?


No I'm very aware of that, I'm just pointing out that there is nothing, in my eyes, to ruin here, as the original DMC dialogue was terrible to begin with. That was my point there.

If this happened to a series like Legacy of Kain or Metal Gear, I could understand the outrage better. But DMC has always had fairly weak characters and dialogue, and from what reviews show, this game's done it better. I tend to agree.

From what I understand you believe the game to be poorly written, and that's fine. I don't agree. I think it is appropriately written. 

Also, I hate Adam Sessler and consider him a blathering idiot. I've seen enough "real reviews" and gameplay to make my personal call here. The game isn't stellar in the dialogue department, but it's better than the previous DMCs in that regard, which were pretty terrible to begin with. This game took a chance, and seemingly succeeded



<message edited by Satanas on Thursday, January 17, 2013 3:23 PM>
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