Enough with the sequels

Logged in as: Guest

Enough with the sequels

Printable Version

All Forums >> [Gamers Lounge] >> Gaming Culture & Industry Discussion >> Enough with the sequels

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Enough with the sequels - Jun.-21th-2008 18:57:35

sonarus

Posts: 7759
Joined: May-13th-2007
Status: online

Off the top of my head Bioshock, FF1 and MGS4 all stand as games where developers literally gave their all. Square was going out of business and they decided to kick out one more game and they spat out FF which has been hugely successful. Look at bioshock, 2k studio was about to get closed down and they did the same. MGS4 kojima made that game knowing he didn't plan on making another MGS game again. He just spat out everything his mind could conjur up into 1 dual layered blu ray disc and released it as a game.

The reason why games this gen suck is because gaming is becoming less like art but more like a means to an end. Corporations taking over just want more and more. Activision and EA are going to ride the music franchise straight into the ground with their consistent sequels just for a couple of extra bucks in their pocket. Developers hardly ever take risks these days mostly due to confines of the publisher. This gen has been largely disappointing to me because its just like last gen but with prettier graphics.

I feel right now devs intentionally hold stuff out from a game just because they can profit from it in the form of a sequel. I say make every game like its your last game. Biggest culprit would be EA who can use a game engine for over a decade. Just pile up a couple of minor improvements to maximize profits. If EA made one Madden game like it was their last i can't even imagine the possibilities

Post #: 1

RE: Enough with the sequels - Jun.-21th-2008 19:15:20

MK_Red

Posts: 1798
Joined: Apr.-1th-2007
Status: offline

Well, I think we should say enough with "Crappy" sequels.

I think there are two questions that should be answered before making a sequel:

1. Is it possible to hugely improve a game / franchise with a sequel?
2. If not, can more of the same for sequel be a good thing?

The answers (My opinon) are:
1. The MGS4 you mentioned is a sequel. COD4 was a sequel and even the BioShock was kinda sequel to System Shock 2. Mortal Kombat 2 and Street Fighter 2 are among best fighting games of all time. then there is Diablo 2!
They were all huge improvements (Aside from BioShock to some degree)

2. With 2, I'm going to suggest Fallout 2, God of War 2, Max Payne 2, Crash 2 & 3, Doom 2...

The thing is to know when they the trend should either stop or get a revamp. RE4 was a huge revamp and is the highest rated in the series. Tomb Raider Legend was kinda one. Making sequels like Tomb Raider 3 and 4, Tony Hawk Project 8, FIFA / Madden / NHL... 200X and such is the bad thing IMO.

Among upcoming games we have 2 great sequels:
- Fallout 3: which is a revamp (Though Fallout didn't need one but the change developer forced it)
- StarCraft 2: Even pure more of the same about SC is gonna be GOTY worthy.

_____________________________

Rest in peace Heath Ledger: 1979-2008

(in reply to sonarus)

Post #: 2

RE: Enough with the sequels - Jun.-21th-2008 19:19:51

BIoodmask

Posts: 5162
Joined: Nov.-5th-2007
From: Indiana
Status: online

The industry is changing. As games now cost in the 10s of millions of dollars to make games producers are less likely to make new Ips bc they fear a lost of investment. That is why all they make are sequels bc the engine is already done(saves money), character models are already done(saves money.)...etc If a game keeps selling well you are guaranteed to see many sequels.

As the bigger development houses continue to buy out the smaller developers the situation will only get worse. You will just get 99% sequels and clones. IMO gaming is headed in a bad direction. There was far more variety in the 16-32-64 Bit days of previous consoles generations.

_____________________________

FIGHT BLOODMASK AT 2DFIGHTER.COM

http://2dfighter.com/

http://forums.n4g.com/fb.aspx?m=423741

(in reply to MK_Red)

Post #: 3

RE: Enough with the sequels - Jun.-21th-2008 19:21:56

mintaro

Posts: 1143
Joined: Nov.-27th-2007
From: T-Dot, Ontario
Status: offline

All I can say is if mediocre games such as Spryo (now, not back in the day when it was good) why not Psychonauts

_____________________________

"Great works are preformed, not by strength, but by perserverance"

(in reply to BIoodmask)

Post #: 4

RE: Enough with the sequels - Jun.-21th-2008 19:24:26

DrPirate

Posts: 2851
Joined: Apr.-24th-2007
From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Status: online

The same way some people care about WW2 games, I care about sequels.

The only games I'm even slightly interested in are all sequels except for InFamous.

Beyond Good and Evil 2, God of War 3, Resistance 2, Uncharted 2, Starcraft 2, Diablo 3, etc.

_____________________________

Resistance Defense Force

(in reply to mintaro)

Post #: 5

RE: Enough with the sequels - Jun.-21th-2008 19:25:34

MK_Red

Posts: 1798
Joined: Apr.-1th-2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mintaro

All I can say is if mediocre games such as Spryo (now, not back in the day when it was good) why not Psychonauts

Well, it's "not" for Psychonauts because apperently, crappy Spyre games still sell a lot while true masterpieces like Psychonauts bomb.

_____________________________

Rest in peace Heath Ledger: 1979-2008

(in reply to mintaro)

Post #: 6

RE: Enough with the sequels - Jun.-21th-2008 19:30:57

sonarus

Posts: 7759
Joined: May-13th-2007
Status: online

Yes but when you make the sequel you have to give it your all. This idea of making a game and then starting work on the sequel as soon as its released is stupid. You should have dumped everything you had into the first game and then if and only if you have more ideas after release do you work on a sequel.

(in reply to DrPirate)

Post #: 7

RE: Enough with the sequels - Jun.-21th-2008 19:32:24

jollygoodchap8

Posts: 304
Joined: Mar.-13th-2008
Status: offline

I agree.

What if the story is awesome and the game does bad or something?...You have no clue what happens in the cancelled sequel, nor will you ever know. It sits in the back of your mind, and you feel kinda incomplete not knowing what hell happens afterwards

Example: Advent Rising, It was supposed to be a trilogy. The graphics were crap and the gameplay was meh, but I thought the story was brilliant, the story alone kept me playing it through the end, even my GF watched me play it....But now I'll never know what happens after he got saved

It's better to tell it all in one shot, and maybe add a small unnoticable plot device that doesn't interfere with the main plot somewhere, so you can use it in later sequel in case the game is successful. (minor spoilers about the Hulk movie) Kinda like how they did that in the Hulk movie...They had a small unnoticable set up for The Leader in case the movie is a success, it didn't play a major plot or anything it just set it up.

< Message edited by jollygoodchap8 -- Jun.-21th-2008 20:15:07 >

_____________________________

PSN ID: JollyGoodChap_8
360 TAG: JollyGoodChap 8

(in reply to sonarus)

Post #: 8

RE: Enough with the sequels - Jun.-21th-2008 19:32:45

EL SALVADOR

Posts: 1175
Joined: Feb.-11th-2008
From: I PLEDGE TO SHOVEL XBOT BS
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sonarus

Off the top of my head Bioshock, FF1 and MGS4 all stand as games where developers literally gave their all. Square was going out of business and they decided to kick out one more game and they spat out FF which has been hugely successful. Look at bioshock, 2k studio was about to get closed down and they did the same. MGS4 kojima made that game knowing he didn't plan on making another MGS game again. He just spat out everything his mind could conjur up into 1 dual layered blu ray disc and released it as a game.

The reason why games this gen suck is because gaming is becoming less like art but more like a means to an end. Corporations taking over just want more and more. Activision and EA are going to ride the music franchise straight into the ground with their consistent sequels just for a couple of extra bucks in their pocket. Developers hardly ever take risks these days mostly due to confines of the publisher. This gen has been largely disappointing to me because its just like last gen but with prettier graphics.

I feel right now devs intentionally hold stuff out from a game just because they can profit from it in the form of a sequel. I say make every game like its your last game. Biggest culprit would be EA who can use a game engine for over a decade. Just pile up a couple of minor improvements to maximize profits. If EA made one Madden game like it was their last i can't even imagine the possibilities

The biggest culprit is NIntendo. Too many examples to list.

_____________________________

(in reply to sonarus)

Post #: 9

RE: Enough with the sequels - Jun.-21th-2008 19:34:36

mintaro

Posts: 1143
Joined: Nov.-27th-2007
From: T-Dot, Ontario
Status: offline

I think there should be a rule for making a sequel, being at least 4-5 years of development must be put into it

< Message edited by mintaro -- Jun.-21th-2008 19:44:28 >

_____________________________

"Great works are preformed, not by strength, but by perserverance"

(in reply to EL SALVADOR)

Post #: 10

RE: Enough with the sequels - Jun.-21th-2008 19:43:35

sonarus

Posts: 7759
Joined: May-13th-2007
Status: online

4yrs per sequel. When you make your engine use it on other games first then come back to making your sequel. Like GOW was made without a sequel in mind and you can tell from the way it ended. When you make your game, just give it your all. Don't save tech for the next game hold onto the game and cram as much tech in it as possible

(in reply to mintaro)

Post #: 11

RE: Enough with the sequels - Jun.-21th-2008 19:57:56

mepsipax

Posts: 19
Joined: Jun.-7th-2008
Status: offline

Let's agree to disagree, while I like the point about ending sequels but Bioshock was a piece of crusty dried up cheese in comparison to System Shock 2 while I agree it is a good game with a great art style I really felt like I as a fan of the System Shock series got screwed several times in the ass.
I have the same opinion with Bloodmask, games today have too long of a development cycle and cost way to much to be innovative but it doesn't mean there bad games in any sense. I just wish developers would use an anticipated sequel to their advantage to innovate, publishers would let them create what they want because they already have an established name and it would get much wide stream attention. I do have a problem with sequels that will be coming out every 1-2 years like Madden, COD, and don't hate me guys but Final Fantasy (I'm including all spinoffs and remakes to) this is just blatant cashing in on a name, but I will say the Final Fantasy series does innovate with all their sequels and spinoffs but they're still just using their name. Blizzard and Valve though can make all the bloody sequels they want because they create some amazing games.
But all in all innovation in gaming reached it's peak during the late 90's and early 00's, oh you see that, innovation died because of the release of the Xbox, Gamecube, PS2, while the PSX and N64 and below generations had great innovative titles, the PC was the definite king, things were looking good for gaming but then for some reason I began to notice a downfall in original games when the last gen systems came out, it was because the consoles, no matter who you are you must admit the things that killed innovation are big publishers like EA, Take 2, Activision and Ubisoft who are only out to make a profit. Innovatoin died when gamers stopped making games and money started making games. Another thing is the current gen and last gen consoles that have become mainstream. And last but not least is better graphics, I'm sorry to say this but I hate amazing graphics, they're nice to look at but once you get past that theres nothing more (i.e Crysis) In gaming today the largest amount of time and the largest amount of people in a development cycle are working on the art assets and graphics programming. You know what screw it, I'm done I could rant like this for hours on end but it still doesn't change anything.

_____________________________

The Horror... The Horror...
Of the current state of the gaming industry