Sony shares slide most in four years

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Skv007


I have a Sony bravia HDTV, I have a Sony project, I have a Sony surround theater system, I have a Sony Music system as well. I used to have a Sony camera, but it crapped out on me.
Obviously, this excludes any Sony gaming related purchases. 

After seeing that I looked around my room to see the brands... lol there is barely more than 1 thing of a brand. The only thing that pairs together is my steelseries keyboard and mouse pad. 

I have a Samsung LCD tv, and a LED monitor for gaming, Bravias are too expensive tbh, great quality, but freaking expensive.

Skv007


I have a Sony bravia HDTV

Yikes. I didn't know people still bought Sony TV's. 

If you've been keeping an eye on Sony's quarterly reports, you'd know this is completely expected. They employ a lot of people and it would be sad to see Sony go under, but they aren't making radically enough changes not to. When Ken took over he promised changes and we haven't seen them. The guys running Sony are out of touch. They could have profited with cell phones, they chose not to. They could have had a piece of the tablet industry, again they chose not to. They could have gotten the PS3 to perform better than the PS2, or at least equal to it, but again they did not. I don't know if its over confidence or lack of competence, but Sony is driving itself hard into the ground.

For gamers, we're going to start more aggressive strategies (most likely in the casual area) to try and penetrate that untapped market. In the short run it may mean more accessories and more exclusive games. Many of these will likely flop, but some will be a success. If none of these products are successful we'll see Sony go the way of Sega.

Welcome to next gen:

NeverEnding1989

Skv007


I have a Sony bravia HDTV

Yikes. I didn't know people still bought Sony TV's. 

If you've been keeping an eye on Sony's quarterly reports, you'd know this is completely expected. They employ a lot of people and it would be sad to see Sony go under, but they aren't making radically enough changes not to. When Ken took over he promised changes and we haven't seen them. The guys running Sony are out of touch. They could have profited with cell phones, they chose not to. They could have had a piece of the tablet industry, again they chose not to. They could have gotten the PS3 to perform better than the PS2, or at least equal to it, but again they did not. I don't know if its over confidence or lack of competence, but Sony is driving itself hard into the ground.  For gamers, we're going to start more aggressive strategies (most likely in the casual area) to try and penetrate that untapped market. In the short run it may mean more accessories and more exclusive games. Many of these will likely flop, but some will be a success. If none of these products are successful we'll see Sony go the way of Sega. 

I can't say I have any complaints with my Bravia -- 5 years and going strong. So as a costumer, I am happy. A shareholder, I am not -- too poor to invest into anything atm. 

That weird sonys stock on the NYSE bottomed out in dec. at about $10 and have been siting around $15 since then. Strange.

TheRot
Really? that's rare i don't know anybody that has anything Sony, hell the only Sony things i own are my ps3 and some exclusives.

And obviously we should all base our thoughts of the future of Sony based on what you know.


 - I own a Sony Bravia
 - I own a Sony camera
 - My cell phone uses Sony technology
 - My laptop uses Sony technology

Skv007
 I can't say I have any complaints with my Bravia -- 5 years and going strong. So as a costumer, I am happy. A shareholder, I am not -- too poor to invest into anything atm.  

 Pretty much.  My XBR9 will last me until 4k becomes mainstream.

I'm Trolling For 'Tears'

Skv007

TheRot


@yeah but their tv and cellphone stuff is not doing that well, when was the last time you bought something Sony that isn't a console or video game related?

I have a Sony bravia HDTV, I have a Sony project, I have a Sony surround theater system, I have a Sony Music system as well. I used to have a Sony camera, but it crapped out on me.
Obviously, this excludes any Sony gaming related purchases. 

You're one of the few then. Most people buy a Samsung HDTV these days, where Sony was on top years and years ago. Many people have switched to Samsung Galaxy phones, get Samsung Galaxy tablets etc etc.

Sony just isn't at the top of many lists for different electronics anymore and that is just a fact. Also makes clear why pretty much all their divisions aren't doing well including TV and phones. PSVita isn't selling like they expected.


So yes, Sony isn't doing well. The Playstation division wrote losses since 2006, they're trying to restructure now, their stocks are called junk now etc.


They might be able to shift it around with a successful PS4, for the PS division at least. Like how Nintendo became the comeback kid with the Wii. Well I don't mean Sony should pull a 'Wii' though hehe

@cgoodno Nope but we should base on the fact that most people here don't own a lot of Sony made products and the people who hang out in video game sites are usually people who are really into games and technology. So if people as hardcore as us are not into Sony products it's safe to make the assumption that most casuals don't care about Sony products as shown by the drop in 10% of their shares

TheRot


@cgoodno Nope but we should base on the fact that most people here don't own a lot of Sony made products and the people who hang out in video game sites are usually people who are really into games and technology. So if people as hardcore as us are not into Sony products it's safe to make the assumption that most casuals don't care about Sony products as shown by the drop in 10% of their shares

Yes, that make's sense.


I mean,  i don't own any Apple's product's, so it's "Probably" right to assume that Apple is done for, because if people as "Hardcore" as me aren't buying their product, they don't stand a chance.

I'm Trolling For 'Tears'

-Mezzo-

TheRot


@cgoodno Nope but we should base on the fact that most people here don't own a lot of Sony made products and the people who hang out in video game sites are usually people who are really into games and technology. So if people as hardcore as us are not into Sony products it's safe to make the assumption that most casuals don't care about Sony products as shown by the drop in 10% of their shares

Yes, that make's sense.


I mean,  i don't own any Apple's product's, so it's "Probably" right to assume that Apple is done for, because if people as "Hardcore" as me aren't buying their product, they don't stand a chance.

Well you didn't understand what i said so let me help you buddy i said most i did not say me, there.  Yes most people in game sites and casuals don't care for Sony made products while a lot of people have or know somebody with an iphone.ipad or apple computer. A lot of people i know have at least one of those products but not one of them has anything made by Sony that is not a ps3, i am willing to bet the vast majority of people here know somebody that has something made by apple. I want to clarify i never said Sony doesn't stand a chance like Mezzo implied i said if the PS4 is not a success they may go out of the console business.

TheRot
@cgoodno Nope but we should base on the fact that most people here don't own a lot of Sony made products and the people who hang out in video game sites are usually people who are really into games and technology. So if people as hardcore as us are not into Sony products it's safe to make the assumption that most casuals don't care about Sony products as shown by the drop in 10% of their shares

 Man, then Android should have given up in its first few years when no one was buying them.  Horrible logic.   

Sony sell the most cameras out of any camera producer.  They are also the most used for cameras that go into cell phones.  

Sony owns the BD market.  It's their medium.

Sony has one of the largest film production companies out there.  Billions of people watch the movies they produce each year.

Sony has one of the largest music labels out there.  Billions of people listen to the music they produce each year.

Obviously, Sony just isn't 'used' by enough people.

Seriously, your logic is a failure in this regard since you want to tie it all down to their TV and laptops, which everyone admits did not evolve to meet a generation of cheaper models out of countries with much cheaper labor.  And, even then, millions of people own Sony TVs and laptops.  If millions isn't enough, then your requirements for what is enough are unrealistic.

cgoodno

TheRot
@cgoodno Nope but we should base on the fact that most people here don't own a lot of Sony made products and the people who hang out in video game sites are usually people who are really into games and technology. So if people as hardcore as us are not into Sony products it's safe to make the assumption that most casuals don't care about Sony products as shown by the drop in 10% of their shares

 Man, then Android should have given up in its first few years when no one was buying them.  Horrible logic.   

Sony sell the most cameras out of any camera producer.  They are also the most used for cameras that go into cell phones.  

Sony owns the BD market.  It's their medium.

Sony has one of the largest film production companies out there.  Billions of people watch the movies they produce each year.

Sony has one of the largest music labels out there.  Billions of people listen to the music they produce each year.

Obviously, Sony just isn't 'used' by enough people.

Seriously, your logic is a failure in this regard since you want to tie it all down to their TV and laptops, which everyone admits did not evolve to meet a generation of cheaper models out of countries with much cheaper labor.  And, even then, millions of people own Sony TVs and laptops.  If millions isn't enough, then your requirements for what is enough are unrealistic.

  
@cgoodno Nope it is not enough if it was their shares would not be going down and they would not have gone years without making a profit and what horrible logic? Sony is an electronics company and if they're electronics are not popular it's obviously a problem.

They're obviously not doing as well as they think they should be, they're cutting all of their forecasts,

http://business.financialpost.com/2013/02/07/sony-slashes-tv-psp-and-ps-vita-sales-forecasts/

They just sold a building and cut some of their jobs, and everybody knows the music business is not doing as well as past decades.  The PS4 will more likely be first sold at a loss if it's not successful Sony is in trouble.

I never said Sony is going to go broke or disappear i said they may go the way of Sega and become a publisher and stop manufacturing consoles, the vita is  not selling enough and if the ps4 is not making money they're better off just releasing their games on multiple platforms they had a couple of exclusives last year and not one sold well all of the millions of money that went into those games was just wasted. 

TheRot, you're a horrible debater.


What you said above:

TheRot
Nope but we should base on the fact that most people here don't own a lot of Sony made products and the people who hang out in video game sites are usually people who are really into games and technology. So if people as hardcore as us are not into Sony products it's safe to make the assumption that most casuals don't care about Sony products as shown by the drop in 10% of their shares 

Reading what you just said above, can you honestly say that the general public is not interested in any of the following products put out by Sony: Skyfall, Zero Dark Thirty, PS3, Alicia Keys, Ke$ha, Paul Simon, and tons more?


You see, you're flip flopping on your whole argument when someone provides evidence to disprove it.  You said that people aren't interested in their products.  That's not true.


Now you say that obviously it isn't enough since their shares have fallen.  Well, no one is debating that.  It's a given.  But, you see, the correlation between people desiring their products and their shares aren't a sign of the whole company.  They've had an increase in competition on all fronts and the majority of their old profits is what you're focusing on.  I agree, many people will go with the cheaper models.  I DO NOT agree that this means that people prefer what they buy over what they could have gotten if Sony's products were at the same price.  You don't know this and yet you seem to make it a case because "you don't know anyone with a Sony product personally."  It's horrible logic and you really don't understand that consumer demand for certain products does not designate consumer demand for all products.


And look at who you are comparing them to.


Microsoft has Software that they pretty much own the market on for 20+ years, phone and tablet hardware (new and failing), and their gaming division.  


Nintendo has their gaming division.


Now compare it to Sony who have TV, laptop/PC, audio centers, cell phones, cameras, camcorders, Movies, Music, and gaming.   Do you honestly believe that it's easy to keep all of those in high demand?  Do you believe that because their TVs are in low demand that this must mean so is everything else?  Do you really believe that because of issues within their company that cause their stock to decrease that people still don't desire Sony products?  Heck, every time Sony announces a new cell phone, the N4G+ crew who like new phones always talk about it and post news about it.  Multiples of their movies made millions in profit and are nominated for various awards.  Their artists are Top 40 chart makers and people who have grossed some of the most money in the history of the music industry.  The PS3 has now (supposedly) sold more than the 360 even with a year start for the 360.


Sony stock isn't doing great.  But your idea that somehow that must mean that there is no desire for their products based on your own perception is horrible and laughable logic.


People desire their products, just not the ones you want to focus on in order to tear them down.

cgoodno


TheRot, you're a horrible debater.


What you said above:

TheRot
Nope but we should base on the fact that most people here don't own a lot of Sony made products and the people who hang out in video game sites are usually people who are really into games and technology. So if people as hardcore as us are not into Sony products it's safe to make the assumption that most casuals don't care about Sony products as shown by the drop in 10% of their shares 

Reading what you just said above, can you honestly say that the general public is not interested in any of the following products put out by Sony: Skyfall, Zero Dark Thirty, PS3, Alicia Keys, Ke$ha, Paul Simon, and tons more?


You see, you're flip flopping on your whole argument when someone provides evidence to disprove it.  You said that people aren't interested in their products.  That's not true.


Now you say that obviously it isn't enough since their shares have fallen.  Well, no one is debating that.  It's a given.  But, you see, the correlation between people desiring their products and their shares aren't a sign of the whole company.  They've had an increase in competition on all fronts and the majority of their old profits is what you're focusing on.  I agree, many people will go with the cheaper models.  I DO NOT agree that this means that people prefer what they buy over what they could have gotten if Sony's products were at the same price.  You don't know this and yet you seem to make it a case because "you don't know anyone with a Sony product personally."  It's horrible logic and you really don't understand that consumer demand for certain products does not designate consumer demand for all products.


And look at who you are comparing them to.


Microsoft has Software that they pretty much own the market on for 20+ years, phone and tablet hardware (new and failing), and their gaming division.  


Nintendo has their gaming division.


Now compare it to Sony who have TV, laptop/PC, audio centers, cell phones, cameras, camcorders, Movies, Music, and gaming.   Do you honestly believe that it's easy to keep all of those in high demand?  Do you believe that because their TVs are in low demand that this must mean so is everything else?  Do you really believe that because of issues within their company that cause their stock to decrease that people still don't desire Sony products?  Heck, every time Sony announces a new cell phone, the N4G+ crew who like new phones always talk about it and post news about it.  Multiples of their movies made millions in profit and are nominated for various awards.  Their artists are Top 40 chart makers and people who have grossed some of the most money in the history of the music industry.  The PS3 has now (supposedly) sold more than the 360 even with a year start for the 360.


Sony stock isn't doing great.  But your idea that somehow that must mean that there is no desire for their products based on your own perception is horrible and laughable logic.


People desire their products, just not the ones you want to focus on in order to tear them down.

 


@cgoodno Ok so i am a horrible debater and you're the one who keeps misreading my posts and you still keep trying to debate me about stuff i did not say.


 i did not say all of the general public isn't interested in sony products you did i said most casuals don't care for them and i am right, of all the stuff you posted only skyfall is  really popular and is not popular because it's made by sony it's popular because it's james bond and that franchise has been around for years. 


Zero dark thirty has not crossed 100 million dollars and Alicia key's last album did not sell as well as her other albums and kesha is only somewhat popular in English speaking countries, sorry to break it to you but America is not the whole world. 


Are you serious? N4G is widely known for being pro-sony of course they're going to talk about sony products. 


Yup and it still did not even came close to selling as much as the PS2 which means the playstation brand is losing popularity and like i said in this thread if the PS4 continues the trend Sony game business may just be publishing games and not making consoles.




I never said people aren't interested in Sony products or that there isn't any desire for them i said most casuals unlike you i don't like to speak in absolutes,  if you're going to try to argue with me don't try to put words in my mouth or i am going to keep calling you out on it.

  Since SONY isn't going anywhere, I am LOVING this news because I am BUYING stock. I am glad those idiots are driving down the price by selling it off. Good. I am buying it and when I sell it 20 years from now, it will be at a tidy profit: even more so because of the drop. Watch it spike on Feb 20th.

TheRot
@cgoodno Ok so i am a horrible debater and you're the one who keeps misreading my posts and you still keep trying to debate me about stuff i did not say.

You do know that 'casual' = mainstream, right?  Otherwise, you comment makes absolutely no sense since there are no 'casual' users of movies, music, and TV.  Same with phones.

TheRot
i did not say all of the general public isn't interested in sony products you did i said most casuals don't care for them and i am right

All those things I posted, 'casuals' are very interested in them.

TheRot
Also, Zero Dark Thirty?  , of all the stuff you posted only skyfall is  really popular and is not popular because it's made by sony it's popular because it's james bond and that franchise has been around for years.  

Wait, this is about Sony products and people's interest.  Don't back out on a technicality to suit your argument.  

TheRot
Zero dark thirty has not crossed 100 million dollars

And has a lot of award nominations...  But, hey, you go with the idea that it has to make a certain amount of money other than grossing more than twice it's cost to be desired.

TheRot
and Alicia key's last album did not sell as well as her other albums

So, that doesn't mean she's desired?  Another attempt to decide what is and isn't desired?

TheRot
and kesha is only somewhat popular in English speaking countries

Wait, so now you're making up limitations to what is 'desired' and what isn't?  They have to be desired the world over?  Give me a break.

TheRot
Are you serious? N4G is widely known for being pro-sony of course they're going to talk about sony products.

Umm... yeah, no.  N4G+ is N4G forum members (past and present) on Goolge+, not N4G.  And it's mostly past forum members who pay more attention to Android devices than they do Sony.  It has nothing to do with "OMG, it's Sony" it has to do with the product.  Trust me, many do the same over the latest Nexus phone.

TheRot
Yup and it still did not even came close to selling as much as the PS2 which means the playstation brand is losing popularity

The only place to go when you're on top is down, but STILL DOES NOT PROVE THAT IT'S NOT DESIRED!  If it wasn't desired, would it have ever caught up to the 360?  Would it not have a higher attach rate?  

TheRot
I never said people aren't interested in Sony products or that there isn't any desire for them i said most casuals unlike you i don't like to speak in absolutes

Umm... you do realize saying that pretty much means the majority of the public who are not considered 'hardcore', right?

TheRot
,  if you're going to try to argue with me don't try to put words in my mouth or i am going to keep calling you out on it.

I didn't.  You're still saying the same thing and thinking that you know what people desire.  You're just trying to hide behind the poor use of 'casuals' which don't exist in the mass market of a diverse collection of services/products.

I had to login just to LOL...at KingVulcan aka TheRot's...piss poor attempt of trying to hold water in a transparent bucket.


But what do you expect from a guy who is attracted to his 13 year old cousin??? Nothing more than a few "Derps, dumps, and doops."



But on Topic....what mezzo and cgoodno said. Those girls took the words right out of my mouth. I'd say "great minds think alike" but that would be too cliché. 

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@cgoodno Again did i say all casuals? you keep ignoring this point and pretending i said nobody wants Sony products i said most casuals, the fact is most people who are not hardcore about technology or entertainment are not that into sony's products and i never said all of the stuff you posted isn't desired once again you are trying to debate me about stuff i didn't say i keep repeating myself because you keep ignoring that fact i am not saying that stuff isn't desired or a little bit popular i am saying most people who are casually into entertainment or technology are not interested in most of the stuff sony has. I know how short sighted a lot of Americans are but the whole world isn't just the USA the fact is most people don't care about kiesha, alicia keys or zero dark thirty just like most people who play video games are not interested in sony so yes most casuals don't care about that stuff some do but not all like you are saying. @jinrome have you been stalking me for years or something? you can try to troll me all you want but you're irrelevant and will continue to be ignored.

TheRot
 i said most casuals, the fact is most people who are not hardcore about technology or entertainment are not that into sony's products

Which is not true.  This is what you keep saying.  It's not true.  Yet you keep making that claim.  This is what I am arguing against.  You keep trying to say "but I didn't say all people, I just said most casuals".  Well, guess what, that's essentially saying "most people" which isn't true.  

cgoodno



Reading what you just said above, can you honestly say that the general public is not interested in any of the following products put out by Sony: Skyfall, Zero Dark Thirty, PS3, Alicia Keys, Ke$ha, Paul Simon, and tons more?

I have no doubt SONY still has some relevant products, but are these really the best examples? If so, theRot has a good point. But we don't need to do a survey of who owns what Sony products, their share prices indicate they are struggling to stay relevant. They are essentially in the same boat as Blackberry, but with more diverse holdings. They're a fading brand name and they've long been replaced as the dominant electronics giant by companies such as Samsung. 


SONY has been in constant decline for 13 years and I'm not sure what kind of future lies ahead for them.

Welcome to next gen: