Carmack says, "next-gen games to target 30fps"

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redDevil87
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Carmack says, "next-gen games to target 30fps" - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 6:02 AM



Maybe the plan for some games will be to have run 1080p but at a continuous 30fps. It makes more sense if that happens. I think it may be time for people to lower their expectations for next-gen consoles.


Well i'm glad that kidney i sold to fund my £8000 gaming rig is going to pay off.




<message edited by redDevil87 on Tuesday, December 18, 2012 6:04 AM>


-MD-
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Re:Carmack says, "next-gen games to target 30fps" - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 6:08 AM
Did you really take my screenshot from rando and make it its own thread?

Nizzy79
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Re:Carmack says, "next-gen games to target 30fps" - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 6:09 AM
redDevil87





Maybe the plan for some games will be to have run 1080p but at a continuous 30fps. It makes more sense if that happens. I think it may be time for people to lower their expectations for next-gen consoles.


Well i'm glad that kidney i sold to fund my £8000 gaming rig is going to pay off.

this sounds like a legitimate statement to me. there might be a few games at launch with 60 fps, but they'll be games nobody cares about. they'll have to put them out there to test the waters. they def won't be system exclusives. 
movies i rated on IMDb SmilesAreFree 

redDevil87
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Re:Carmack says, "next-gen games to target 30fps" - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 6:24 AM
-MD-


Did you really take my screenshot from rando and make it its own thread?



Stay on topic.


-MD-
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Re:Carmack says, "next-gen games to target 30fps" - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 7:03 AM
redDevil87


-MD-


Did you really take my screenshot from rando and make it its own thread?



Stay on topic.



Lol.

FAT MAN GO BOOM
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Re:Carmack says, "next-gen games to target 30fps" - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 7:17 AM
-MD-


Did you really take my screenshot from rando and make it its own thread?





Yes, Yes he did...lol
[ali

Eiffel
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Re:Carmack says, "next-gen games to target 30fps" - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 7:25 AM
I thought this was obvious. People actually believe they'll get games with more than finally 1080p on next gen consoles?

No one's stopping them from dreaming I suppose. 

MarauderShields
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Re:Carmack says, "next-gen games to target 30fps" - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 9:55 AM
I can live without 60fps. It's a nice bonus yes but in the end the core of the game is still my focus.

KEVERS
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Re:Carmack says, "next-gen games to target 30fps" - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 10:09 AM
It's possible next gen consoles will go the way of iPhones. The first lot was innovative, but every new one since has been with minimal upgrades and an no major changes. And like the iSheep, the masses will eat it up. It's a smart business move because they have to spend little to no money to change their formula but get the same results whether they did or not. 
Next gen consoles will probably be more or less what we have now but they'll spin it as a new gen with a few gimmicks and a revamped dashboard. Basically a new paint job and a few decals but it's still the same old car. 


 

ZombieNinjaPanda
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Re:Carmack says, "next-gen games to target 30fps" - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 10:52 AM
Eiffel


I thought this was obvious. People actually believe they'll get games with more than finally 1080p on next gen consoles?

No one's stopping them from dreaming I suppose. 
 


Dude I suggest checking out the front page. There are people there who believe they'll be getting Crysis 3 level graphics on next gen consoles. They also believe Killzone 2 looks better than Crysis 3. But that's another story. 


@Kevers

Don't say that, Nocturnus will have a heart attack.



<message edited by ZombieNinjaPanda on Tuesday, December 18, 2012 10:55 AM>


Eiffel
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Re:Carmack says, "next-gen games to target 30fps" - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 11:18 AM
ZombieNinjaPanda


Eiffel


I thought this was obvious. People actually believe they'll get games with more than finally 1080p on next gen consoles?

No one's stopping them from dreaming I suppose. 
 


Dude I suggest checking out the front page. There are people there who believe they'll be getting Crysis 3 level graphics on next gen consoles. They also believe Killzone 2 looks better than Crysis 3. But that's another story. 


@Kevers

Don't say that, Nocturnus will have a heart attack.


Ha. Killzone 2 used dark palettes for all it's textures, it's an old color theory trick, additionally with HDMI's black levels.  Darker hues render better. 
<message edited by Eiffel on Tuesday, December 18, 2012 11:21 AM>

Ducky
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Re:Carmack says, "next-gen games to target 30fps" - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 11:41 AM
MarauderShields

I can live without 60fps. It's a nice bonus yes but in the end the core of the game is still my focus.

The frame rate has an impact on the core gameplay.
It isn't merely a 'bonus'.

thebudgetgamer
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Re:Carmack says, "next-gen games to target 30fps" - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 11:44 AM
Eiffel


ZombieNinjaPanda


Eiffel


I thought this was obvious. People actually believe they'll get games with more than finally 1080p on next gen consoles?

No one's stopping them from dreaming I suppose. 
 


Dude I suggest checking out the front page. There are people there who believe they'll be getting Crysis 3 level graphics on next gen consoles. They also believe Killzone 2 looks better than Crysis 3. But that's another story. 


@Kevers

Don't say that, Nocturnus will have a heart attack.


Ha. Killzone 2 used dark palettes for all it's textures, it's an old color theory trick, additionally with HDMI's black levels.  Darker hues render better. 



Wasn't gaming a lot better before you knew stuff like that.

Eiffel
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Re:Carmack says, "next-gen games to target 30fps" - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 11:51 AM
thebudgetgamer


Eiffel


ZombieNinjaPanda


Eiffel


I thought this was obvious. People actually believe they'll get games with more than finally 1080p on next gen consoles?

No one's stopping them from dreaming I suppose. 
 


Dude I suggest checking out the front page. There are people there who believe they'll be getting Crysis 3 level graphics on next gen consoles. They also believe Killzone 2 looks better than Crysis 3. But that's another story. 


@Kevers

Don't say that, Nocturnus will have a heart attack.


Ha. Killzone 2 used dark palettes for all it's textures, it's an old color theory trick, additionally with HDMI's black levels.  Darker hues render better. 



Wasn't gaming a lot better before you knew stuff like that.


Gaming was a lot better when it was about gameplay, I've been doing graphic design for twelve years and animation for five, despite this it's never effected how I felt or played games, if anything knowing about how it's done is an influence. But quoting a person who used to be a developer at a studio who was a teacher of mine.

"Developing games for a living will make it hard to keep it as a hobby. You'll have little desire to play what you do for a living." Basically you'll get bored of the playing aspect when the development is your critical focus as a career. That whole "Games developed by gamers" is greatly subjective.
<message edited by Eiffel on Tuesday, December 18, 2012 11:54 AM>

wishingW3L
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Re:Carmack says, "next-gen games to target 30fps" - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 1:41 PM
MarauderShields


I can live without 60fps. It's a nice bonus yes but in the end the core of the game is still my focus.





frame-rate is the core of the game. The lower it is the worse the gameplay will be.   

wishingW3L
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Re:Carmack says, "next-gen games to target 30fps" - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 2:25 PM
ZombieNinjaPanda


Eiffel


I thought this was obvious. People actually believe they'll get games with more than finally 1080p on next gen consoles?

No one's stopping them from dreaming I suppose. 
 


Dude I suggest checking out the front page. There are people there who believe they'll be getting Crysis 3 level graphics on next gen consoles. They also believe Killzone 2 looks better than Crysis 3. But that's another story. 


@Kevers

Don't say that, Nocturnus will have a heart attack.



It's not too far-fetched to believe that.

Make a PC with 512MB of "shared" Ram between CPU and GPU and I can assure that it doesn't matter what kind of GPU you put in there you will never reach the image quality of consoles on a PC with those specs. And that's without mentioning the ultra garbage GPU that the PS3 has... The GPU on the PS3 ONLY!!! has 24 cores and to makes things even worse (and I mean catastrophically worse) those cores aren't even unified, they are divided into pixel cores and vertex cores. And combined with the Cell CPU and the segmented Ram the PS3 was doomed to failure graphically compared to the Xbox.  


Now fast forward a few years and we got Uncharted 2. If there's anything we can learn from this is to never underestimate the power of optimizations in a closed environment. N-E-V-E-R.

The only way that next gen console wouldn't be able to reach Crysis 3 (PC) level of quality is if the next-gen console spec jump turns out to be a very small one like the Wii from the PS2 and Xbox1. But if Sony and MS go for a GPU with at least 600-800 unified cores (that'd be like a $200 Radeon HD) then we could expect that level of quality for next-gen consoles. But as of now we only know rumors about the specs so no one can say anything for sure.

-Mezzo-
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Re:Carmack says, "next-gen games to target 30fps" - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 2:59 PM
Is this the guy who hyped up RAGE  as the greatest FPS of all time.

I'm Trolling For 'Tears'

MidnytRain
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Re:Carmack says, "next-gen games to target 30fps" - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 3:05 PM
Eiffel

Gaming was a lot better when it was about gameplay, I've been doing graphic design for twelve years and animation for five, despite this it's never effected how I felt or played games, if anything knowing about how it's done is an influence. But quoting a person who used to be a developer at a studio who was a teacher of mine.

"Developing games for a living will make it hard to keep it as a hobby. You'll have little desire to play what you do for a living." Basically you'll get bored of the playing aspect when the development is your critical focus as a career. That whole "Games developed by gamers" is greatly subjective.



Ah, the whole "hobby to career" thing. I've always planned to be careful of that. Would hate to turn something I love into just another chore.

MarauderShields
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Re:Carmack says, "next-gen games to target 30fps" - Wednesday, December 19, 2012 1:33 AM
FatOldMan


MarauderShields

I can live without 60fps. It's a nice bonus yes but in the end the core of the game is still my focus.

The frame rate has an impact on the core gameplay.
It isn't merely a 'bonus'.

So either you believe that a game should only be 60fps to be enjoyable or you chose to generalize 60fps as framerate and read only what you wanted to hear in my post?


Framerate is only part of part of the core and that's technical proficiency. As far as I'm concerned the core of the game I'm talking about involves technical proficiency which includes maintaining a steady frame rate and a steady 30fps isn't game breaking at all is it? A few drops here an there annoys but it's still playable. Play The Witcher 2 on PC with 60fps and play it with 30fps and tell me if the game isn't fun anymore? 60fps is better but it's not a heavy factor in determining the whole core of what makes a game enjoyable.  

So yeah 60fps is still just a bonus. I'd rather have a steady 30fps game than a developer trying to go for 60fps but leaving a lot of technical inconsistencies like RAGE and the amount of texture pop-in in the game (PS3).

MarauderShields
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Re:Carmack says, "next-gen games to target 30fps" - Wednesday, December 19, 2012 1:40 AM
wishingW3L


MarauderShields


I can live without 60fps. It's a nice bonus yes but in the end the core of the game is still my focus.





frame-rate is the core of the game. The lower it is the worse the gameplay will be.   

See my other post. A higher framerate (60fps) is better yes but would playing a game on a lesser but playable resolution (30fps) ruin the entire game for you?


The core lies in technical proficiency framerate is just a part of that.

Tewi-Inaba
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Re:Carmack says, "next-gen games to target 30fps" - Wednesday, December 19, 2012 1:40 AM
-Mezzo-


Is this the guy who hyped up RAGE  as the greatest FPS of all time.
Is this really what carmack is to everyone now?



Friend Code:1650-0941-8045

-MD-
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Re:Carmack says, "next-gen games to target 30fps" - Wednesday, December 19, 2012 1:45 AM
Tatsumaki


-Mezzo-


Is this the guy who hyped up RAGE  as the greatest FPS of all time.
Is this really what carmack is to everyone now?



Most people probably think that's Carmack's first game.

-Mezzo-
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Re:Carmack says, "next-gen games to target 30fps" - Wednesday, December 19, 2012 7:35 AM
Tatsumaki


-Mezzo-


Is this the guy who hyped up RAGE  as the greatest FPS of all time.
Is this really what carmack is to everyone now?



It's sad isn't it. 


Now he's like Michael Pachter, who runs his mouth just to stay relevant.

I'm Trolling For 'Tears'

Ducky
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Re:Carmack says, "next-gen games to target 30fps" - Wednesday, December 19, 2012 10:13 AM
-Mezzo-


Tatsumaki


-Mezzo-


Is this the guy who hyped up RAGE  as the greatest FPS of all time.
Is this really what carmack is to everyone now?



It's sad isn't it. 


Now he's like Michael Pachter, who runs his mouth just to stay relevant.

Eh? So someone asks Carmack a question, and Carmack giving an honest reply now qualifies as running his mouth in an attempt to stay relevant?


Pachter often says things that would require extreme amount of many different skills to utter with a straight face. Carmack often just speaks facts or his opinion (which is worth quite a bit given his history).

caseh
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Re:Carmack says, "next-gen games to target 30fps" - Wednesday, December 19, 2012 10:41 AM
FatOldMan
Pachter often says things that would require extreme amount of many different skills to utter with a straight face.


<message edited by caseh on Wednesday, December 19, 2012 10:43 AM>
 

Eiffel
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Re:Carmack says, "next-gen games to target 30fps" - Wednesday, December 19, 2012 10:54 AM
So many developers wish they could be an engineering prodigy like Carmack, became a millionaire overnight at the age of 20, developed the first REAL 3D graphics engine that set the standard for all video game engines to this day and other three dimensional interactive technologies, created one if not the most successful genre in gaming, along with Romero pretty much created multiplayer standard with Team Deathmatch, CTF, KOTH, FFA gametypes, Gave Gabe Newell and Mike Harrington the Id Tech 3 early license rights for Half-Life and to be used as a beginning template for their Source engine, a big part of Valve's success is because of Carmack, works closely with NASA in his free time even founding his own aerospace company.  For anyone to even question his creditably as far as tech goes is an idiot of the highest caliber. 

He's a living legend of the technological age. Suck it Kojima. 
<message edited by Eiffel on Wednesday, December 19, 2012 11:07 AM>

KEVERS
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Re:Carmack says, "next-gen games to target 30fps" - Wednesday, December 19, 2012 11:15 AM
Eiffel


So many developers wish they could be an engineering prodigy like Carmack, became a millionaire overnight at the age of 20, developed the first REAL 3D graphics engine that set the standard for all video game engines to this day and other three dimensional interactive technologies, created one if not the most successful genre in gaming, along with Romero pretty much created multiplayer standard with Team Deathmatch, CTF, KOTH, FFA gametypes, Gave Gabe Newell and Mike Harrington the Id Tech 3 early license rights for Half-Life and to be used as a beginning template for their Source engine, a big part of Valve's success is because of Carmack, works closely with NASA in his free time even founding his own aerospace company.  For anyone to even question his creditably as far as tech goes is an idiot of the highest caliber. 

He's a living legend of the technological age. Suck it Kojima. 











but yeah, I agree.


 

Eiffel
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Re:Carmack says, "next-gen games to target 30fps" - Wednesday, December 19, 2012 11:19 AM
KEVERS


Eiffel


So many developers wish they could be an engineering prodigy like Carmack, became a millionaire overnight at the age of 20, developed the first REAL 3D graphics engine that set the standard for all video game engines to this day and other three dimensional interactive technologies, created one if not the most successful genre in gaming, along with Romero pretty much created multiplayer standard with Team Deathmatch, CTF, KOTH, FFA gametypes, Gave Gabe Newell and Mike Harrington the Id Tech 3 early license rights for Half-Life and to be used as a beginning template for their Source engine, a big part of Valve's success is because of Carmack, works closely with NASA in his free time even founding his own aerospace company.  For anyone to even question his creditably as far as tech goes is an idiot of the highest caliber. 

He's a living legend of the technological age. Suck it Kojima. 









but yeah, I agree.


Lol, when you take a history of interactive media course in college you learn a thing or two. Carmack gets a lot of disrespect for his opinions when they're factual and have backing, and the people who attack his opinions don't have two cents to hold to know what they're talking about. It's arrogant as hell. 
<message edited by Eiffel on Wednesday, December 19, 2012 11:20 AM>

Jon_Smackenrow
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Re:Carmack says, "next-gen games to target 30fps" - Wednesday, December 19, 2012 11:30 AM
-Mezzo-


Is this the guy who hyped up RAGE  as the greatest FPS of all time.

Mezzo right. Rage was not fun.


I don't know if MGS 3 would be dramatically better at a higher frame-rate. High frame-rates only help in high action.


I just want the Next gen consoles to have 8 gigs in the ram, and 2 gigs for videocard(or more in case you need to push 4k tvs). That is enough for me. make it $450

cgoodno
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Re:Carmack says, "next-gen games to target 30fps" - Wednesday, December 19, 2012 11:32 AM
-Mezzo-
Tatsumaki
-Mezzo-
Is this the guy who hyped up RAGE  as the greatest FPS of all time.
Is this really what carmack is to everyone now?
It's sad isn't it. 

Now he's like Michael Pachter, who runs his mouth just to stay relevant.
Don't you mean Peter Molyneaux?

-Mezzo-
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Re:Carmack says, "next-gen games to target 30fps" - Wednesday, December 19, 2012 12:04 PM
cgoodno


-Mezzo-
Tatsumaki
-Mezzo-
Is this the guy who hyped up RAGE  as the greatest FPS of all time.
Is this really what carmack is to everyone now?
It's sad isn't it. 

Now he's like Michael Pachter, who runs his mouth just to stay relevant.
Don't you mean Peter Molyneaux?



He would have been a better choice, Yes.

I'm Trolling For 'Tears'

Ducky
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Re:Carmack says, "next-gen games to target 30fps" - Wednesday, December 19, 2012 1:46 PM
cgoodno


-Mezzo-
Tatsumaki
-Mezzo-
Is this the guy who hyped up RAGE  as the greatest FPS of all time.
Is this really what carmack is to everyone now?
It's sad isn't it. 

Now he's like Michael Pachter, who runs his mouth just to stay relevant.
Don't you mean Peter Molyneaux?

There's a gradient of categories, which range from made up gibberish to facts to opinions.

- You have Pachter, who says things that that wouldn't occur even if the infinite universe theory was true.
- Then there's Molyneux, who says he'll do things but then... ... ... T.T
- Then there's Yerli of Crytek, who'll do the things they claimed they'd do, but forget to do the things that everyone assumed they'd do.
- Then there's Carmack, who speaks his mind and delivers what he sets out to do, but everyone hates him because they are convinced that he's a fanboy of an opposing platform because he once made statement X or did action Y.
- Then there's KenLevine, who speaks his mind and delivers what he sets out to do, but everyone hates him because they are convinced that a game's cover is a 1:1 representation of gameplay. 
- Then there's Kotick, who does what he sets out to do, and everyone hates him for it.
- Then there's anyone from EA, who tries to do something new, but succumb to peer pressure because they're afraid everyone might hate them for it.   
- Then there's Cliffy, who tries to do new things but always ends up doing the same things as before.
- Then there's Kojima, who tries to do new things but gets death threats to do the same thing as before.
- Then there's Jaffe, who runs his mouth to stay relevant.

<message edited by FatOldMan on Wednesday, December 19, 2012 1:54 PM>

Ducky
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Re:Carmack says, "next-gen games to target 30fps" - Wednesday, December 19, 2012 1:52 PM
Double post, bleckh.

Originally I just wanted to make fun of Jaffe, but the post kinda got away from me.
<message edited by FatOldMan on Wednesday, December 19, 2012 1:55 PM>

Jon_Smackenrow
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Re:Carmack says, "next-gen games to target 30fps" - Wednesday, December 19, 2012 5:25 PM
FatOldMan


cgoodno


-Mezzo-
Tatsumaki
-Mezzo-
Is this the guy who hyped up RAGE  as the greatest FPS of all time.
Is this really what carmack is to everyone now?
It's sad isn't it. 

Now he's like Michael Pachter, who runs his mouth just to stay relevant.
Don't you mean Peter Molyneaux?

There's a gradient of categories, which range from made up gibberish to facts to opinions.

- You have Pachter, who says things that that wouldn't occur even if the infinite universe theory was true.
- Then there's Molyneux, who says he'll do things but then... ... ... T.T
- Then there's Yerli of Crytek, who'll do the things they claimed they'd do, but forget to do the things that everyone assumed they'd do.
- Then there's Carmack, who speaks his mind and delivers what he sets out to do, but everyone hates him because they are convinced that he's a fanboy of an opposing platform because he once made statement X or did action Y.
- Then there's KenLevine, who speaks his mind and delivers what he sets out to do, but everyone hates him because they are convinced that a game's cover is a 1:1 representation of gameplay. 
- Then there's Kotick, who does what he sets out to do, and everyone hates him for it.
- Then there's anyone from EA, who tries to do something new, but succumb to peer pressure because they're afraid everyone might hate them for it.   
- Then there's Cliffy, who tries to do new things but always ends up doing the same things as before.
- Then there's Kojima, who tries to do new things but gets death threats to do the same thing as before.
- Then there's Jaffe, who runs his mouth to stay relevant.

Can I have help on this one. 

Jon_Smackenrow
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Re:Carmack says, "next-gen games to target 30fps" - Thursday, December 20, 2012 1:02 PM
16 gigs of ram
3 gigs in the video card
north of $330.

Seems good enough
<message edited by Jon_Smackenrow on Thursday, December 20, 2012 1:36 PM>

wishingW3L
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Re:Carmack says, "next-gen games to target 30fps" - Thursday, December 20, 2012 1:40 PM
-MD-


Tatsumaki


-Mezzo-


Is this the guy who hyped up RAGE  as the greatest FPS of all time.
Is this really what carmack is to everyone now?



Most people probably think that's Carmack's first game.





but his super-texture (edit: I mean, Mega-texture not super) tech is still awesome. And the fact that a game with such high image quality ran at 60 frames on consoles is testament that he is a genius when it comes to create engines, is just that his vision was too big for consoles to handle. And Rage was designed for consoles first and PC last so I bet that if it would have been PC exclusive the game would have been much better. Another thing is that the DVD9 of the Xbox was posing a huge problem to them because the super-texture take tons of space on the disc and this obviously affected many design choices.
<message edited by wishingW3L on Thursday, December 20, 2012 2:00 PM>