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RE: Dropping the bomb.. - May-1th-2008 20:37:28

snoop_dizzle

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quote:

Well it all relates to the bomb, I mean pearl harbor is what brought the U.S. into WW2.

But I think that the U.S. did need to beat Japan before the Soviet Union, to keep it from becoming a communist country, so i guess that kinda pushed Truman to drop the bombs to get Japan to surrender

you know that made me think....what if the US didn't get involved in europe and fight? Russia probably could of defeated Germany....would they "liberate"(spread communism) Europe?

i dunno that just came to mind.

But no japan needed a sign....and considering how long some battles went on against japan....it seemed necessary...sadly.

Japan tried to get the US into the war...well they got their answer.

< Message edited by snoop_dizzle -- May-1th-2008 20:39:59 >

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RE: Dropping the bomb.. - May-1th-2008 20:40:21

Dr Pepper

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quote:

ORIGINAL: snoop_dizzle

you know that made me think....what if the US didn't get involved in europe and fight? Russia probably could of defeated Germany....would they "liberate"(spread communism) Europe?

i dunno that just came to mind.

The Soviet Union did spread communism through Europe...

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RE: Dropping the bomb.. - May-1th-2008 20:40:54

snoop_dizzle

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quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: snoop_dizzle

you know that made me think....what if the US didn't get involved in europe and fight? Russia probably could of defeated Germany....would they "liberate"(spread communism) Europe?

i dunno that just came to mind.

The Soviet Union did spread communism through Europe...

I meant all of Europe..under the iron curtain(sorry i should have been more specific)

Stalin was quite power hungry..and a bad person himself...but compared to Hitler he wasn't as bad...I was just thinking..if the US didn't get involved in Europe..what would stop Russia from taking over all of war torn Europe?

< Message edited by snoop_dizzle -- May-1th-2008 20:46:42 >

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RE: Dropping the bomb.. - May-1th-2008 20:51:00

toughNAME

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A couple thosand military lives versus hundreds of thousands of civilian lives?

It was wrong.

More lives would have been wasted had the bomb not been dropped true. But these are the lives of soldiers and other military personnel, people who know they may die every time they wake up in the morning, not women and children. It was wrong.

Although I am glad it was enough to finally get the US off their ass and into the war.

As one N4G user once said "Oh toughNAME, one of those passive agressive Canadians". Dropping the atomic bomb was wrong no matter how you look at it, but I would have done the same thing if it were my decision.

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RE: Dropping the bomb.. - May-1th-2008 20:56:50

Dr Pepper

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Their goal was to establish satellite states around the Soviet Union, not to take over all of Europe. As you said, Stalin wasn't "as bad".

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RE: Dropping the bomb.. - May-1th-2008 20:59:32

snoop_dizzle

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quote:

Their goal was to establish satellite states around the Soviet Union, not to take over all of Europe. As you said, Stalin wasn't "as bad".

I'm just saying given the opportunity..i think its possible they would go for it if it was free for the taking. I mean if the US wasn't in their way....why not?

But yeah the nukes were terrible act...but sadly were necessary. As it was the US got involved pretty late, which wasn't good.

< Message edited by snoop_dizzle -- May-1th-2008 21:01:43 >

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RE: Dropping the bomb.. - May-1th-2008 21:02:44

Dr Pepper

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The Soviet Union took many opportunities, like using Cuba to spread communist influence in Latin America. But the US would've have reacted strongly, just like they did in most situations involving communist takeover. Probably even more so since many European countries were, and still are, strong allies.

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RE: Dropping the bomb.. - May-1th-2008 21:03:37

mintaro

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well....I just finihed a report abou that very same dilemna, and of course it was wrong.

They could have dropped it on actual enemy, but chose to drop it on innocent civilians

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RE: Dropping the bomb.. - May-1th-2008 21:07:05

Satanas

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dr Pepper

quote:

ORIGINAL: Satanas

In an analogy of sorts, you could say Japan slapped the US in the face,

A "slap" that caused the death of over two thousand military personal. A "slap" that caused the death of 68 civilians. A "slap" that was a clear attempt to get the US involved in the war. The US got involved, and Japan payed the price, a terrible one, for their stupidity.

I'm giving my own opinion here. In comparison to the 2 occurrences themselves, I'd call Japan's a slap when put up against the US's. However Japan gets a bonus fault for starting it, and doing it for no reason whatsoever. Either way, they f/cked themselves (Japan).

< Message edited by Satanas -- May-1th-2008 21:08:15 >

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RE: Dropping the bomb.. - May-1th-2008 21:07:47

snoop_dizzle

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quote:

The Soviet Union took many opportunities, like using Cuba to spread communist influence in Latin America. But the US would've have reacted strongly, just like they did in most situations involving communist takeover. Probably even more so since many European countries were, and still are, strong allies.

that is true it would cause the US to react strongly...but fighting back that much land all the way into russia would be a lot more difficult. I mean going through Europe and then Russia would be a very difficult.

AND with countries like cuba and their influence in latin america...it would be overwhelming.

but thats just a thought that came to mind.

< Message edited by snoop_dizzle -- May-1th-2008 21:11:44 >

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RE: Dropping the bomb.. - May-1th-2008 21:15:47

Dr Pepper

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Hmmm, well perhaps this would be better discussed in another thread, or teh chat(

), as this hypothetical situation doesn''t relate too much to this topic at hand (wow, look at me getting back on topic for once).

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RE: Dropping the bomb.. - May-1th-2008 21:17:44

snoop_dizzle

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quote:

Hmmm, well perhaps this would be better discussed in another thread, or teh chat(), as this hypothetical situation doesn''t relate too much to this topic at hand (wow, look at me getting back on topic for once).

yeah back on topic!!!

but yeah it seems that it was necessarry yet sad.

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RE: Dropping the bomb.. - May-1th-2008 21:33:13

ParaDise_LosT

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But US should have nuked a japanese military base instead of thousands of civilians
thats what i found pretty disturbing about the bombing

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RE: Dropping the bomb.. - May-1th-2008 21:41:48

Farsendor1

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they bombed up we used a larger bomb to bomb them it was all stupid gained nothing lost everything
why does it matter if it was or wasn't a military base innocent people still died from the us and japan it was stupid for both countries to bomb each other.

< Message edited by Farsendor1 -- May-1th-2008 21:44:46 >

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RE: Dropping the bomb.. - May-1th-2008 21:48:52

EZCheez

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ParaDise_LosT

I think that leroy guy said 'times up. lets do this!'....

also, Im not very good @ history, infact i suck at it....but i vaguely recall that some boat or cruise ship w/e got america to get in the war......
ofc i may be completly wrong....i have no friggin idea....

Oh! and no, i think it was pretty wrong of us to do that, the men in pearl harbor we're soldiers not civilians

I think

The boat was called the Lusitania. It was actually a British ship that carried American passengers at the time it was sunk. That's what started the U.S. involvement in first World War. That's a completely different story. My adopted father was actually storming the beaches of Normandy on D-Day and was one of the few veterans left that survived the invasion before he died in 2000. He had a lot of incredible stories but the one thing he never talked about was that day.

Anyway, war is just a way for old men to settle problems by having young men die for their beliefs. It's easy to believe in something until you have someone related die for the cause. Only then will you really know whether or not it was actually worth it.

< Message edited by EZCheez -- May-1th-2008 21:56:24 >

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RE: Dropping the bomb.. - May-1th-2008 21:54:31

ParaDise_LosT

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Farsendor1

they bombed up we used a larger bomb to bomb them it was all stupid gained nothing lost everything
why does it matter if it was or wasn't a military base innocent people still died from the us and japan it was stupid for both countries to bomb each other.

the diffrence is participation
people who joined the military KNEW the risk of getting killed, The people in the cities.
they suspected nothing
Its like saying
would you nuke an island that was full of children
or
an island of grown men

the real use of the bomb was to cause terror in hopes of stoping a war
They didn't need to involve children
If they bombed a military base, they would have gotten the same result....

< Message edited by ParaDise_LosT -- May-1th-2008 21:55:38 >

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RE: Dropping the bomb.. - May-1th-2008 22:02:07

Etrigan

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quote:

Stalin was quite power hungry..and a bad person himself...but compared to Hitler he wasn't as bad...

quote:

ORIGINAL: snoop_dizzle

quote:

Seriously mate with all due respect, you need to check out some history. Stalin was just as much a demon as Hitler, if not more so.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki forced the Japanese hand, otherwise WW2 would NOT have ended in 1945. The principles of Imperial Japan meant that every Japanese soul would be required to fight invaders as Japan has never been invaded before. Imagine how many more lives would have been lost.

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RE: Dropping the bomb.. - May-1th-2008 22:10:35

harry190

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quote:

ORIGINAL: snoop_dizzle

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: snoop_dizzle

you know that made me think....what if the US didn't get involved in europe and fight? Russia probably could of defeated Germany....would they "liberate"(spread communism) Europe?

i dunno that just came to mind.

The Soviet Union did spread communism through Europe...

I meant all of Europe..under the iron curtain(sorry i should have been more specific)

Stalin was quite power hungry..and a bad person himself...but compared to Hitler he wasn't as bad...I was just thinking..if the US didn't get involved in Europe..what would stop Russia from taking over all of war torn Europe?

Compared to Hitler he wasn't bad?Oh no no no no.He was as horrible.
He was going to launch a massive purge which would have caused the death of millions,but he died.....

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RE: Dropping the bomb.. - May-1th-2008 22:12:18

snoop_dizzle

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quote:

Compared to Hitler he wasn't bad?Oh no no no no.He was as horrible.
He was going to launch a massive purge which would have caused the death of millions,but he died.....

He was the lesser of two evils...of course he was evil!...you are taking what i said out of context.

Russia was a valuable ally even if they were bad...or else imagine fighting against Hitler..and possibly Stalin

< Message edited by snoop_dizzle -- May-1th-2008 22:14:06 >

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RE: Dropping the bomb.. - May-1th-2008 22:12:34

macalatus

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In the words of Civil War Union General Sherman, "War is hell"! Innocents are bound to suffer or get killed in armed conflicts, and despite what many "peace-niks" say, war is an unavoidable action of man (you can postpone or stop some, but you CAN'T stop all wars). Yes, it's a tragedy that so many Japanese civilians had to loose their lives, but that's just the way it is.

Since I'm a US military veteran myself, I'll admit my bias by saying that the US government was right in dropping the two nuclear bombs in order to save BOTH US servicemembeers and Japanese civilian lives (who were taught to either kill the Americans or themselves, a la the Japanese civlians in Iwo Jima). But I will also agree that the nuclear bombs were used to speed up the surrender of Japan in order to prevent the Soviets from taking over, with the end result of Japan divied to two nations, like Korea and Germany (thank you Gen. Douglass MacArthur!!).

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