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RE: Dropping the bomb.. - May-1th-2008 22:16:41

harry190

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quote:

ORIGINAL: snoop_dizzle

quote:

Compared to Hitler he wasn't bad?Oh no no no no.He was as horrible.
He was going to launch a massive purge which would have caused the death of millions,but he died.....

The lesser of two evils...of course he was evil!...you are taking what i said out of context.

Hitler by himself wasn't bad,he thought he was right,i know what i'm saying is controversial,
but he was driven by propaganda,misconception and personal occurences in his life.

Nope,not out of context,just focusing on this particular point.

Well,Truman could have waited a little longer before the second bombing.

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Post #: 41

RE: Dropping the bomb.. - May-1th-2008 22:22:00

snoop_dizzle

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quote:

Hitler by himself wasn't bad,he thought he was right

and so did stalin...so does any man that is that evil...hitler turned out to be more dangerous of the two. Thus hitler was the one to eliminate.

And also the way he treated and eliminated the "unperfect" was even sicker than stalin via concentration camps. And not just jews...but others as well.

http://www.auschwitz.org.pl/new/index.php?language=EN&tryb=stale&id=380

if you have seen anything on concentration camps like aushwitz or visited the holocaust museum....its is disturbing.

< Message edited by snoop_dizzle -- May-1th-2008 22:31:25 >

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Post #: 42

RE: Dropping the bomb.. - May-1th-2008 23:07:50

Etrigan

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A gulag is equally vile.

Both were despots. Both are burning in hell.

Again, let's clear this up. There is no lesser of two evils. There is evil. Stalin and Hitler were evil.

Quite simple really.

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Post #: 43

RE: Dropping the bomb.. - May-1th-2008 23:14:07

snoop_dizzle

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this thread is going downhill and might be locked soon...but yeah both were @#$%^&* evil

It just seems that Hitler was more of a threat since he invaded other countries quite aggressively.

If i remember correctly with Stalin, it was more within his country (Finland was an exception i think).

Either way is bad really bad, but Hitler taking over Europe seems like a bigger threat(maybe i should of said a bigger threat than lesser of two evils, thats my bad) to me at least.

< Message edited by snoop_dizzle -- May-1th-2008 23:45:26 >

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RE: Dropping the bomb.. - May-1th-2008 23:45:23

Odion

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Ya Stalin whiped out a generation of Russians he believe were against him, Hitler commited Mass Genocide.

If you REALLY want to look into why dropping the bombs was a good thing, look no further then Japans occupation of China, so many lives lost and ruined in that occupation and some of the horror stories put Rwanda to shame.

Stuff like japanese Captains have competions seeing who could cut off the most heads in a single day

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Post #: 45

RE: Dropping the bomb.. - May-2th-2008 0:03:22

snoop_dizzle

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but yeah really....its just very sad how sick those two were...along with other mass murders.

well guess we should go back to the OP before we get locked.

< Message edited by snoop_dizzle -- May-2th-2008 0:05:09 >

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Post #: 46

RE: Dropping the bomb.. - May-2th-2008 8:21:30

PS360WII

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It was the only way the US could of won the war. Japan was kicking our butts and taking names, so in that regard yes it was the thing to do in order to win.

For all who are saying that so many non soldiers died yes that's true and it happens in every single war.

< Message edited by PS360WII -- May-2th-2008 8:25:32 >

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Post #: 47

RE: Dropping the bomb.. - May-2th-2008 8:24:16

JHFKDFNFGJKFHDKF

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dr Pepper

Shouldn't have attacked Pearl Harbor to get us involved in the war.

killing thousands is not equal to killing thousands + making the land unfarmable + causing genetic mutations accross a huge radius.

lets solve killing with more killing.

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Post #: 48

RE: Dropping the bomb.. - May-2th-2008 8:48:41

Dukester101

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Japan knew that attacking the US was a stupid move (at least the commanders did), but the Japan leadership wanted to attack the US because it "wasnt" involved yet.

Was it justifiable to drop 2 nuclear munitions on them? That will never be answered "correctly," but it's sufficient to say that it helped pave the way for Allied Forces to win WWII.

If the United States had not gotten involved, Hitler and his forces would have overrun Europe and Britain, developed the nuclear bomb themselves, and declared world supremacy.

It's always easy to look at a situation in hindsight and say it was wrong, or it was right. At the time, the United States administration decided that the best way to eliminate Japan and it's strength was to hit them hard. What better way to hit them hard than with a nuclear bomb?

Not to mention it was a test to make sure the bomb performed as well as the scientists said it would. That was basically the reason we dropped 2 rather than 1. The first performed the desired effect, but could it be duplicated? The second proved that it could, and that the destructive power was great.

Also, it proved that America was now in the war, and that we were not going to take shit from Japan, Italy, or Germany. America has also been the "sleeping giant," or the "force to be reckoned with." Sure it's true that two wrongs do not make a right, but look at Japan now. Is it a hostile nation anymore? No, it most certainly is not, and Japan has contributed a lot to the global economy since then.

So in my opinion, dropping the bombs was a necessary evil. I think of it as doing some wrong for a greater good. And we all know that the US entering the war was a "good" thing. It's always good to stop a tyrannical psycho who wants to wipe out an entire race/type of people.

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Post #: 49

RE: Dropping the bomb.. - May-2th-2008 9:34:49

Tempist

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dr Pepper

Shouldn't have attacked Pearl Harbor to get us involved in the war.

Pepper, you do know that the US had no reason to station a huge majority of their naval fleet at Hawaii. Not to mention you're ignoring much of the backstory where the US was making aggressive moves against Japan. Basically England, America, the Dutch became involved in the war between Japan and China.

Basically Pearl Harbor was bait to get the US fully into the Pacific war.

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RE: Dropping the bomb.. - May-2th-2008 9:41:35

JHFKDFNFGJKFHDKF

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America undoubtebly helped the allies in WW2 - but i think russia did more than anyone to finish the war. (stalingrad)

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Post #: 51

RE: Dropping the bomb.. - May-2th-2008 10:52:10

Lotto

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The USA pushed Japan into the war. in very short.

The USA pressured the British to end their 20 year old alliance with Japan - 1921

in 1931 Japan occupied Manchuria to use it as a Buffer state. This was normal but for some reason the west was unhappy with this move of "aggression". quote "Just when we learn how to play poker, they change the game to bridge" - japanese dude ?

Japan wanted to create colonies in china in order to expand. They invaded them -1937 ( good read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre )

After the French capitulated Japan invaded northern French Indochina to block China from importing arms supplied by USA. The USA imposed on Japan an embargo on steel and scrap metal (which means Japan cant expand) - 1940

Japan moved into southern Indochina. The USA order all Japanese assets frozen. They also impose a an embargo on oil -1941

Now Japan is fucked they can give up or fight. Japan needed to get oil and they could get it in india. The only force that could stop them was the american fleet that had been moved to Honolulu from San Diego(coincidence!) So Japan attack.

I dont see anything wrong with dropping Litte Boy and Fat Man they had to test the bombs some how and they won the war by it.

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Post #: 52

RE: Dropping the bomb.. - May-2th-2008 12:36:03

socomnick

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All is fair in love and war. Hell we shoulda droped one more bomb just to get our point across. Everything is fair game in war.

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Post #: 53

RE: Dropping the bomb.. - May-2th-2008 12:45:35

Lotto

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quote:

ORIGINAL: socomnick

All is fair in love and war. Hell we shoulda droped one more bomb just to get our point across. Everything is fair game in war.

You have to think about the consequences tho

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Post #: 54

RE: Dropping the bomb.. - May-2th-2008 12:47:12

Tempist

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quote:

ORIGINAL: socomnick

All is fair in love and war. Hell we shoulda droped one more bomb just to get our point across. Everything is fair game in war.

No there are laws and conventions people agree to. Hence why the Japanese where tried as war criminals for attacking Pearl harbor, and then executed. German officers were tried as well, and I believe one Japanese officer was tried for waterboarding an American soldier under the pretext that waterboarding is torture.

In fact, starting a war without justifiable evidence or reason constitutes as a war crime. Can anyone cite a modern day example?

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Post #: 55

RE: Dropping the bomb.. - May-2th-2008 13:54:30

Lotto

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tempist

quote:

ORIGINAL: socomnick

All is fair in love and war. Hell we shoulda droped one more bomb just to get our point across. Everything is fair game in war.

No there are laws and conventions people agree to. Hence why the Japanese where tried as war criminals for attacking Pearl harbor, and then executed. German officers were tried as well, and I believe one Japanese officer was tried for waterboarding an American soldier under the pretext that waterboarding is torture.

In fact, starting a war without justifiable evidence or reason constitutes as a war crime. Can anyone cite a modern day example?

Uh uh! I can! Iraq!
Am I a terrorist now ?

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Post #: 56

RE: Dropping the bomb.. - May-2th-2008 14:09:12

ParaDise_LosT

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quote:

ORIGINAL: socomnick

All is fair in love and war. Hell we shoulda droped one more bomb just to get our point across. Everything is fair game in war.

Thats sick dude, That will make us no better than the evil people that we we're trying to stop.

If all was fair in war then we're having double standards with 9/11 arn't we

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RE: Dropping the bomb.. - May-2th-2008 15:43:32

Dr Pepper

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Odion

Ya Stalin whiped out a generation of Russians he believe were against him, Hitler commited Mass Genocide.

If you REALLY want to look into why dropping the bombs was a good thing, look no further then Japans occupation of China, so many lives lost and ruined in that occupation and some of the horror stories put Rwanda to shame.

Stuff like japanese Captains have competions seeing who could cut off the most heads in a single day

Well Odion, it appears many people have forgot about what they did in China, judging from these other posts. Also seems they have forgotten Japan sided with the Nazis, a group responsible for the death of millions of innocent people.

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Post #: 58

RE: Dropping the bomb.. - May-2th-2008 15:52:17

Tempist

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dr Pepper

Well Odion, it appears many people have forgot about what they did in China, judging from these other posts. Also seems they have forgotten Japan sided with the Nazis, a group responsible for the death of millions of innocent people.

I have not forgotten, infact, the invasion of Hong Kong greatly affected my family and as a result I am where I am today as a result. None the less, it was western interference in an eastern nation conflict, that's where the problem stands. Western powers had no problems with heavily trading with Japan and China in the 1920s and 1930s.

And if you're going to call on Japan's bad for allying with the National Socialist party of Germany, then you're going to have to go after the Soviet Union for it's complacency during German's invasion of Poland and other European Countries. As well, you have to go after Italy for also allying with Germany.

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RE: Dropping the bomb.. - May-2th-2008 16:05:10

Solid_Snake

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Well first, about US pushing Japan into war, thats only half true. The US did cut off Japan from oil and other resources, but Japan had been pillaging, raping, and taking over neighboring countries for the previous hundred years. They were in control of Korea, they took China, and there was no stopping them.

Second, the notion that only a couple thousand soldiers would have died, as opposed to the 300,000 civilians isn't necessarily true either. There is no way of knowing how many soldiers would have died; not only American soldiers either. Japan refused to surrender, even after the second Atomic Bomb was dropped. If you look at the dates, Japan only surrendered the day after Russia declared war on Japan. The Japanese were willing to sacrifice everything to take out as many Americans as possible (Japanse leadership and generals that is) but were pressured into surrendering because there was no way they could stand up being bombarded by the Americans, AND the Russians. So i believe it was a necessary thing to do. When it was dropped, there was no end in sight, and it was a show of strength that even after a long and brutal war, the Americans had a weapon against anyone who would be willing to attack them.

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