RE: Should Sony Make a KIllZone 2 Bundle....?

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RE: Should Sony Make a KIllZone 2 Bundle....? - Jun.-28th-2008 14:05:33

harry190

Posts: 3810
Joined: Feb.-10th-2008
From: Why do you want to know you BIG pervert
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Why do you always sound so butt-hurt and always seem to blame other
companies fro the Dreamcast's demise. You see, denial does not apply to 'other'
people only. And please don't come around trying to be patronizing. No one's a kid here.
Your age does not give you monopoly over wisdom and intelligence. Don't turn this into something personal.

Also,as an old timer in the gaming macrocosm,you should already know that companies never make profits on
hardware sale until very very late.Most of the true gains comes from software sales which involves both first and third
party providers. Sony is losing money and will continue to lose money in the mid-term but bundles do provide a means of augmenting
sales,be it even for a short period of time. Killzone 2 being a very very important title and investment for them,this will probably happen.
If you remember correctly,the XBOX 360 had been constantly been outselling the PS3 in terms of software(Third party) in Europe but it's
starting to change. The Pro Evolution bundle gave a significant boost to sales in Europe. Another factor that needs to come into consideration
is brand power. Face it,the 'Playstation' is the new 'Nintendo' and Sony are actually sitting on that and trying to reinforce it. There is no better
wa for them to increase their market penetration.

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RE: Should Sony Make a KIllZone 2 Bundle....? - Jun.-28th-2008 14:07:57

meepmoopmeep

Posts: 2497
Joined: Oct.-28th-2007
From: la li lu le lo
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bama

How MS isn't losing money, they are saving money. If they didn't do anything they would be losing money.

really, losing billions of dollars on the first xbox and hardly even making money with the 360 at the moment.
not to mention how many billions they're spending right now for the next xbox.

where is your dispute about bundles oh wise and intelligent one?
get back on topic.

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Post #: 42

RE: Should Sony Make a KIllZone 2 Bundle....? - Jun.-28th-2008 14:19:24

bama

Posts: 1933
Joined: May-20th-2008
From: Bama
Status: offline

"Face it,the 'Playstation' is the new 'Nintendo' and Sony are actually sitting on that and trying to reinforce it."

Sony is a multimedia company trying to take over the game industry, Nintendo started as a trading card company their business are obvious and it shows. Nintendo has always made a profit and never lost a penny. Is that not the smart thing to do? I'm sorry though but has playstation taken over a barren industry like the NES did? Did they have anything different from their competitors? No, the won by being Walmart. Nintendo, and Sega tried to be Apple. The difference is HUGE!

"Sony is losing money and will continue to lose money in the mid-term but bundles do provide a means of augmenting
sales,be it even for a short period of time."

Wrong Sony told their Stockholders they may never profit from the PS3

"Also,as an old timer in the gaming macrocosm,you should already know that companies never make profits on
hardware sale until very very late."

Very wrong. Atari 2600- Huge profits. NES- Huge Profits. Genesis- Huge Profits. SNES- Huge profits Playstation- Huge Profits Playstation 2- Huge Profits

Now lets look at companies who attempted Sony's strategy with the PS3

Atari Jaguar- Abyssmal, Sega Saturn- Terrible, Neo Geo- Huh?, TurboGrafx-16- Dead

"There is no better way for them to increase their market penetration."

When your getting destroyed by another Console Maker 4-1 you aren't making Market Penetration

You are being delusional the PS3 will be known as one of the "also rans" of this gen. No fire will light up under its ass.

< Message edited by bama -- Jun.-28th-2008 14:22:48 >

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Because I can make an animated edifice of your mum, and make sackboy screw her.

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Post #: 43

RE: Should Sony Make a KIllZone 2 Bundle....? - Jun.-28th-2008 14:22:12

bama

Posts: 1933
Joined: May-20th-2008
From: Bama
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quote:

ORIGINAL: meepmoopmeep

quote:

ORIGINAL: bama

How MS isn't losing money, they are saving money. If they didn't do anything they would be losing money.

really, losing billions of dollars on the first xbox and hardly even making money with the 360 at the moment.
not to mention how many billions they're spending right now for the next xbox.

where is your dispute about bundles oh wise and intelligent one?
get back on topic.

How much money would they lose if a Sony powered operating system ran them out of business?

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shankle

Because I can make an animated edifice of your mum, and make sackboy screw her.

(in reply to meepmoopmeep)

Post #: 44

RE: Should Sony Make a KIllZone 2 Bundle....? - Jun.-28th-2008 14:22:29

meepmoopmeep

Posts: 2497
Joined: Oct.-28th-2007
From: la li lu le lo
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: bama

"Also,as an old timer in the gaming macrocosm,you should already know that companies never make profits on
hardware sale until very very late."

Very wrong. Atari 2600- Huge profits. NES- Huge Profits. Genesis- Huge Profits. SNES- Huge profits Playstation- Huge Profits Playstation 2- Huge Profits

and they did this in their first 2 years right?

How much money would they lose if a Sony powered operating system ran them out of business?

wth are you jabbering on about? we're talking about gaming platforms. MS went into the game market to get their fingers in another cookie jar as they've done with other products.

< Message edited by meepmoopmeep -- Jun.-28th-2008 14:24:02 >

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Post #: 45

RE: Should Sony Make a KIllZone 2 Bundle....? - Jun.-28th-2008 14:23:14

bama

Posts: 1933
Joined: May-20th-2008
From: Bama
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: meepmoopmeep

quote:

ORIGINAL: bama

"Also,as an old timer in the gaming macrocosm,you should already know that companies never make profits on
hardware sale until very very late."

Very wrong. Atari 2600- Huge profits. NES- Huge Profits. Genesis- Huge Profits. SNES- Huge profits Playstation- Huge Profits Playstation 2- Huge Profits

and they did this in their first 2 years right?

Yes.

And as for the PS2 sold this way argument you should compare american and Japanese sales. In case you've forgotten the Paris riots went on during that time period among other things.

< Message edited by bama -- Jun.-28th-2008 14:24:30 >

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shankle

Because I can make an animated edifice of your mum, and make sackboy screw her.

(in reply to meepmoopmeep)

Post #: 46

RE: Should Sony Make a KIllZone 2 Bundle....? - Jun.-28th-2008 14:24:21

meepmoopmeep

Posts: 2497
Joined: Oct.-28th-2007
From: la li lu le lo
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: bama

quote:

ORIGINAL: meepmoopmeep

quote:

ORIGINAL: bama

"Also,as an old timer in the gaming macrocosm,you should already know that companies never make profits on
hardware sale until very very late."

Very wrong. Atari 2600- Huge profits. NES- Huge Profits. Genesis- Huge Profits. SNES- Huge profits Playstation- Huge Profits Playstation 2- Huge Profits

and they did this in their first 2 years right?

Yes.

please enlighten me

quote:

How much money would they lose if a Sony powered operating system ran them out of business?

wth are you jabbering on about? we're talking about gaming platforms. MS went into the game market to get their fingers in another cookie jar as they've done with other products.
they want to monopolize everthing they can get their hands on. this includes your statement about a sony OS.

< Message edited by meepmoopmeep -- Jun.-28th-2008 14:27:05 >

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Post #: 47

RE: Should Sony Make a KIllZone 2 Bundle....? - Jun.-28th-2008 14:26:43

bama

Posts: 1933
Joined: May-20th-2008
From: Bama
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: meepmoopmeep

quote:

ORIGINAL: bama

quote:

ORIGINAL: meepmoopmeep

quote:

ORIGINAL: bama

"Also,as an old timer in the gaming macrocosm,you should already know that companies never make profits on
hardware sale until very very late."

Very wrong. Atari 2600- Huge profits. NES- Huge Profits. Genesis- Huge Profits. SNES- Huge profits Playstation- Huge Profits Playstation 2- Huge Profits

and they did this in their first 2 years right?

Yes.

please enlighten me

Well for one the NES was an entire generation behind in graphics and costed next to nothing too make. And all of those focused on cheap design to make instant profits. As you can tell all of those were the least powerful in their generation.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shankle

Because I can make an animated edifice of your mum, and make sackboy screw her.

(in reply to meepmoopmeep)

Post #: 48

RE: Should Sony Make a KIllZone 2 Bundle....? - Jun.-28th-2008 14:27:26

bama

Posts: 1933
Joined: May-20th-2008
From: Bama
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: meepmoopmeep

quote:

ORIGINAL: bama

quote:

ORIGINAL: meepmoopmeep

quote:

ORIGINAL: bama

"Also,as an old timer in the gaming macrocosm,you should already know that companies never make profits on
hardware sale until very very late."

Very wrong. Atari 2600- Huge profits. NES- Huge Profits. Genesis- Huge Profits. SNES- Huge profits Playstation- Huge Profits Playstation 2- Huge Profits

and they did this in their first 2 years right?

Yes.

please enlighten me

quote:

How much money would they lose if a Sony powered operating system ran them out of business?

wth are you jabbering on about? we're talking about gaming platforms. MS went into the game market to get their fingers in another cookie jar as they've done with other products.

Oh no you are so wrong I'll be right back. I have to enlighten you on something very important.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shankle

Because I can make an animated edifice of your mum, and make sackboy screw her.

(in reply to meepmoopmeep)

Post #: 49

RE: Should Sony Make a KIllZone 2 Bundle....? - Jun.-28th-2008 14:31:56

meepmoopmeep

Posts: 2497
Joined: Oct.-28th-2007
From: la li lu le lo
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: bama

quote:

ORIGINAL: meepmoopmeep

quote:

ORIGINAL: bama

quote:

ORIGINAL: meepmoopmeep

quote:

ORIGINAL: bama

"Also,as an old timer in the gaming macrocosm,you should already know that companies never make profits on
hardware sale until very very late."

Very wrong. Atari 2600- Huge profits. NES- Huge Profits. Genesis- Huge Profits. SNES- Huge profits Playstation- Huge Profits Playstation 2- Huge Profits

and they did this in their first 2 years right?

Yes.

please enlighten me

Well for one the NES was an entire generation behind in graphics and costed next to nothing too make. And all of those focused on cheap design to make instant profits. As you can tell all of those were the least powerful in their generation.

you do know that the technology at that time was still expensive to invest in, right? almost comparable to todays technology? and that they still spent billions in R&D. they made profit, but not in the first year. maybe the 2nd or 3rd. that goes with all the other platforms you've listed.

i'd like to see sales records and initial cost that prove this and then i'll shut up.
but generally, companies take a loss at the start of launching a new platform.

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Post #: 50

RE: Should Sony Make a KIllZone 2 Bundle....? - Jun.-28th-2008 14:33:08

bama

Posts: 1933
Joined: May-20th-2008
From: Bama
Status: offline

Here is the proof:

"We posed that question to company-specific research firm Directions on Microsoft analyst Matt Rosoff. His answer in short:

“I don’t know.”

Still, he explained his uncertainty. “Remember that Microsoft partly entered the game console business for defensive reasons,” Rosoff said. “The company was concerned that a PlayStation successor would become the default gateway to networked entertainment in the home—Ken Kutaragi promised as much—and cut into consumer PC sales.”

He continued, “It's very hard to calculate the worth of a defensive business. I personally think Sony will have a really hard time with the PS3—fewer games at launch, $200 price premium, and yet they're losing more money per console than Microsoft is on the 360. More long-term, imagine no PlayStation 4 and how Microsoft might profit from such an environment.”

So according to Rosoff, one of the main rewards that the Xbox business can provide Microsoft is the ability to block Sony’s encroachment on the living room and PC sales, the software for which is Microsoft’s bread and butter. The value of these areas seems immeasurable to Microsoft, so it’s no wonder the company wants to stick with the Xbox business despite its steep near-term costs."

_____________________________

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shankle

Because I can make an animated edifice of your mum, and make sackboy screw her.

(in reply to bama)

Post #: 51

RE: Should Sony Make a KIllZone 2 Bundle....? - Jun.-28th-2008 14:35:29

bama

Posts: 1933
Joined: May-20th-2008
From: Bama
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: meepmoopmeep

quote:

ORIGINAL: bama

quote:

ORIGINAL: meepmoopmeep

quote:

ORIGINAL: bama

quote:

ORIGINAL: meepmoopmeep

quote:

ORIGINAL: bama

"Also,as an old timer in the gaming macrocosm,you should already know that companies never make profits on
hardware sale until very very late."

Very wrong. Atari 2600- Huge profits. NES- Huge Profits. Genesis- Huge Profits. SNES- Huge profits Playstation- Huge Profits Playstation 2- Huge Profits

and they did this in their first 2 years right?

Yes.

please enlighten me

Well for one the NES was an entire generation behind in graphics and costed next to nothing too make. And all of those focused on cheap design to make instant profits. As you can tell all of those were the least powerful in their generation.

you do know that the technology at that time was still expensive to invest in, right? almost comparable to todays technology? and that they still spent billions in R&D. they made profit, but not in the first year. maybe the 2nd or 3rd. that goes with all the other platforms you've listed.

i'd like to see sales records and initial cost that prove this and then i'll shut up.
but generally, companies take a loss at the start of launching a new platform.

You can't find those on the internet. What I am saying is that with each of those sales of the above consoles I mentioned the company made a profit because they were cheaper to make then what they sold them for. The other ones I mentioned were sold at a lost and ironically they all lost.

_____________________________

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shankle

Because I can make an animated edifice of your mum, and make sackboy screw her.

(in reply to meepmoopmeep)

Post #: 52

RE: Should Sony Make a KIllZone 2 Bundle....? - Jun.-28th-2008 14:37:43

meepmoopmeep

Posts: 2497
Joined: Oct.-28th-2007
From: la li lu le lo
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: bama

Here is the proof:

"We posed that question to company-specific research firm Directions on Microsoft analyst Matt Rosoff. His answer in short:

“I don’t know.”

Still, he explained his uncertainty. “Remember that Microsoft partly entered the game console business for defensive reasons,” Rosoff said. “The company was concerned that a PlayStation successor would become the default gateway to networked entertainment in the home—Ken Kutaragi promised as much—and cut into consumer PC sales.”

He continued, “It's very hard to calculate the worth of a defensive business. I personally think Sony will have a really hard time with the PS3—fewer games at launch, $200 price premium, and yet they're losing more money per console than Microsoft is on the 360. More long-term, imagine no PlayStation 4 and how Microsoft might profit from such an environment.”

So according to Rosoff, one of the main rewards that the Xbox business can provide Microsoft is the ability to block Sony’s encroachment on the living room and PC sales, the software for which is Microsoft’s bread and butter. The value of these areas seems immeasurable to Microsoft, so it’s no wonder the company wants to stick with the Xbox business despite its steep near-term costs."

and so this does not tie in with the monopolistic nature of MS?
they're doing this out of fear to gain money. you did say they weren't in this for gaining money right? how does this logic fit in to your statement?
they entered the game market to gain control, whether by fear or not. that is their purpose for starting the xbox.

if you can't find that on the internet then your credibility is as good as mine.
companies take a loss when launching a new platform. that's a fact. they then profit as time goes by.
sony is not the only company to lose in its first couple years.

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Post #: 53

RE: Should Sony Make a KIllZone 2 Bundle....? - Jun.-28th-2008 14:45:19

bama

Posts: 1933
Joined: May-20th-2008
From: Bama
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: meepmoopmeep

quote:

ORIGINAL: bama

Here is the proof:

"We posed that question to company-specific research firm Directions on Microsoft analyst Matt Rosoff. His answer in short:

“I don’t know.”

Still, he explained his uncertainty. “Remember that Microsoft partly entered the game console business for defensive reasons,” Rosoff said. “The company was concerned that a PlayStation successor would become the default gateway to networked entertainment in the home—Ken Kutaragi promised as much—and cut into consumer PC sales.”

He continued, “It's very hard to calculate the worth of a defensive business. I personally think Sony will have a really hard time with the PS3—fewer games at launch, $200 price premium, and yet they're losing more money per console than Microsoft is on the 360. More long-term, imagine no PlayStation 4 and how Microsoft might profit from such an environment.”

So according to Rosoff, one of the main rewards that the Xbox business can provide Microsoft is the ability to block Sony’s encroachment on the living room and PC sales, the software for which is Microsoft’s bread and butter. The value of these areas seems immeasurable to Microsoft, so it’s no wonder the company wants to stick with the Xbox business despite its steep near-term costs."

and so this does not tie in with the monopolistic nature of MS?
they're doing this out of fear to gain money. you did say they weren't in this for gaining money right? how does this logic fit in to your statement?
they entered the game market to gain control, whether by fear or not. that is their purpose for starting the xbox.

if you can't find that on the internet then your credibility is as good as mine.
companies take a loss when launching a new platform. that's a fact. they then profit as time goes by.
sony is not the only company to lose in its first couple years.

Once Microsoft thinks that Sony is no longer a problem they will leave the games industry. Really think about it everything MS does has to do with protecting their PC sales. Think Ipod MS was afraid people would by Macs. Boom! Zune. The problem is in everything excepted bundled software MS fails.

Yes I worded my statement wrongly but I think you get my point now. And this isn't Sony's first years in anything. The Playstation brand has been around for more than a decade and is not a new platform. Sony fell for the same reasons Nintendo and Sega did. nintendo thought people would by their N64 just for the games and name recognition. Sega thought people would be willing to pay $399 for a Saturn just because it said "Sega". Name recognition doesn't matter. All three got fooled by that simple point.

_____________________________

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shankle

Because I can make an animated edifice of your mum, and make sackboy screw her.

(in reply to meepmoopmeep)

Post #: 54

RE: Should Sony Make a KIllZone 2 Bundle....? - Jun.-28th-2008 14:46:11

harry190

Posts: 3810
Joined: Feb.-10th-2008
From: Why do you want to know you BIG pervert
Status: online

Hardware sales never generate profits in the beginning.
In case you haven't read the post in its entirety, software sales account
for the real profits.
Right at this moment,you sound like one of those disgruntled Dreamcast fans who hates Sony
for doing business. And please don't give me that thing about I own all three of them. I have to
eat vegetables,it does not mean I like them.

Do you consider this,i QUOTE:

''You are being delusional the PS3 will be known as one of the "also rans" of this gen. No fire will light up under its ass.''
,intelligent debating?

Also,please don't go around saying things about Nintendo and the game industry as a whole thinking that you are
instructing people.

Nintendo always puts aside a huge stash in case something goes wrong with their consoles.

What do the Paris riots have to do in that except for showing that you are an uninformed individual actually trying to save his ass
from getting ridiculed on the internet by complete strangers after a little butt-hurt and trolling moment?

This thread has been entirely derailed and you are starting to argue about things that never exist.
Of course Sony won't make any profit on hardware sales, it is simply impossible now.

As for the Wii,it has been even more successful than the PS2 by reaching into previously untapped markets.

I can hardly think of it as a real competitor to the 360 and PS3.
Right now,the guys at Nintendo have shown their inability to follow up wit their own marketing tactics,whic is strange,considering their experience.
If you thought things were ba for the PS3 last year,look at what's coming fr the Wii next.

About the bundles:I never heard of a company which would not take risks even when they lose money.

I just read the post above me,and I have to say you are showing your limits.
Protecting their PC sales? Did you even read and listen to what Bill Gates was saying when they announced the XBOX?

< Message edited by harry190 -- Jun.-28th-2008 14:47:39 >

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RE: Should Sony Make a KIllZone 2 Bundle....? - Jun.-28th-2008 14:47:10

meepmoopmeep

Posts: 2497
Joined: Oct.-28th-2007
From: la li lu le lo
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: bama

Once Microsoft thinks that Sony is no longer a problem they will leave the games industry. Really think about it everything MS does has to do with protecting their PC sales. Think Ipod MS was afraid people would by Macs. Boom! Zune. The problem is in everything excepted bundled software MS fails.

wow, you're really delusional if you think once MS gets a hold of anything that they will just stop.
seriously, you amaze me.

why do you think companies milk their products? once they have a hit they just quit the business?
c'mon man, get real.

talk about blind loyal delusional corporate following.

< Message edited by meepmoopmeep -- Jun.-28th-2008 15:08:52 >

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Post #: 56

RE: Should Sony Make a KIllZone 2 Bundle....? - Jun.-28th-2008 14:47:31

bama

Posts: 1933
Joined: May-20th-2008
From: Bama
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: harry190

Why do you always sound so butt-hurt and always seem to blame other
companies fro the Dreamcast's demise. You see, denial does not apply to 'other'
people only.

Fair point. I'll admit I have been slightly bitter about that for about 8 years. I'll make a point never to mention it again.

_____________________________

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shankle

Because I can make an animated edifice of your mum, and make sackboy screw her.

(in reply to harry190)

Post #: 57

RE: Should Sony Make a KIllZone 2 Bundle....? - Jun.-28th-2008 14:49:34

bama

Posts: 1933
Joined: May-20th-2008
From: Bama
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: harry190
If you thought things were ba for the PS3 last year,look at what's coming fr the Wii next.

Do you want to make a ban bet on that?

< Message edited by bama -- Jun.-28th-2008 15:00:58 >

_____________________________

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shankle

Because I can make an animated edifice of your mum, and make sackboy screw her.

(in reply to harry190)

Post #: 58

RE: Should Sony Make a KIllZone 2 Bundle....? - Jun.-28th-2008 15:59:08

ksmooches

Posts: 2283
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From: MD, VA, NY (in that order)
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wow bama, harry, and meemoop...you guys are really goin at it, N4G should definitely start a debate club, we would rape all.

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RE: Should Sony Make a KIllZone 2 Bundle....? - Jun.-28th-2008 16:24:20

Crazyglues

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ksmooches

hell naw...for all we know, this game could be another Haze, and after that, I aint takin no more chances and embracing new titles that push themselves back and then after all that extra time push out crap anywayz...wtf was they thinkin...that was supposed to be the hot stuff last year when it was supposed to come out...now its the Lair of 2008.

Killzone could be the Lair of 2009, or the Halo3/Resitance, but we wont know, and until it proves itself, it should not be sold as a bundle.

MGS4, proved itself worthy, GTA4, proved itself worthy....notice anything? 4 times platinum, Kilzone has like 1 good one, and i would only give Liberation a silver. Resistance 2 should have a bundle before Killzone 2, shoot, Ratchet and Clank derserve a bundle, they have been consistantly good since the first one(Deadlocked doesn't count b/c its just Ratchet).

But If they make a Ratchet and Clank Kart Racer with a bundle, I will buy another PS3 just for that.

Actually this is a very good point... and well said... I really didn't look at it that way but I guess yeah, a game has to prove it's self in-order to get a bundle...

and you might be right, I hope your not, but you could be, and Killzone 2 could become the Haze or Lair of 2009....

and that would suck big time..... LoL (I seriously hope that doesnt' happen)

but from what I see they might be on there way to doing COD4 numbers... and that would be huge...