Strategy RPG Discussion

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KozmoOchez

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Strategy RPG Discussion - Thursday, December 12, 2013 3:31 PM ( #1 )
I've been playing these since...middle school? Probably my favorite subgenre of RPG games but is also the most difficult to enjoy (it's really easy to make one that's just not fun). I've played a decent amount of these games and find that almost all of them have distinct differences that keep them fresh. Unlike other subgenres of RPGs that can easily fall into "typical action rpg" or even "typical turn based rpg" I don't think that there is such a thing as a "typical" Strategy RPG. 

I also noticed that SRPGs have a love/hate relationship with gamers. They are ALL grind fests, to a point - some of them allow you to be overkill after a certain point of grinding, yet others require constant grinding to the end. Some have class systems, some have set classes/abilities locked to each character. Some have a huge party system that allows for extreme customizing, others are locked to just story characters. I can also honestly say that when it comes to SRPGs a good battle/development system trumps a good story.

Personally, I like one that gives me the opportunity to grind my way to the top if I wanted to spend the extra time, and that has a completely open class/customization system which allows for multiple replays. Final Fantasy Tactics/FFT War of the Lions is at the top of my list of favorites, followed by Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together, and then Fire Emblem Awakening. I love the balance in those games, although they are almost completely UNBALANCED. It's the way they let the player take advantage of their systems and sort of "break" the game that's awesome. You can play straight through, grinding when you find something too difficult...OR, you can hit a certain point in the game that allows for proper grinding, and then destroy the rest of the main story (while still possibly struggling against side quests). Permadeath also is something to consider in each, Fire Emblem being the scariest since its instant and can come unexpectedly, making training new units a bit more difficult. 

I could go on and on, but how do others feel about SRPGs? What are some favorite series, or maybe some hidden gems? Massive Chalice is in development and looks to try and set the bar higher than FFT, which will be difficult, but from what they announced is not entirely impossible. What makes an SRPG not fun? How do people feel about the Nippon Ichi (NIS) SRPGs (Disgaea series, ZHP Unlosing Ranger vs Darkdeath Evilman, etc.)

WildArmed

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Re:Strategy RPG Discussion - Thursday, December 12, 2013 4:01 PM ( #2 )
Have you played Jeanne De' Arc (PSP)? 
I absolutely loved the game. 

I've played SPRGs here and there (Hoshigami: Ruining Blue Earth on PS1), but I've never really gotten into them until I played:


Valkriya Chronicles and Jeanne D' Arc. 


Im thinking of picking up Tactics for PSP and diseaga for ps3 soon thou. Which diseaga should i start with?

thorstein

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Re:Strategy RPG Discussion - Thursday, December 12, 2013 9:12 PM ( #3 )
 Love them! And I would definitely second Valkyria Chronicles. But old school SRPGs like Ogre Battle are still amazing. I was just playing an old genesis game called Dune II: Battle for Arakis which is more RTS than SRPG. I've heard Disgaia is good. Actraiser was my first, and therefore my favorite.
TooTall19

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Re:Strategy RPG Discussion - Thursday, December 12, 2013 11:16 PM ( #4 )
I like a few Strategy RPG games like Disgaea 3, VC, and Fire Emblem. One of my favorites was the Advance Wars: Duel Strike on DS.
Cat

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Re:Strategy RPG Discussion - Friday, December 13, 2013 3:12 PM ( #5 )
I'm with you on FF Tactics, and as someone mentioned above Valkyria Chronicles. I really loved the art there, which is what kept me going when I was convinced my brain was mush and the task was impossible. To be clear - art style, not graphics. It just needs to be pleasing to the eye. 

Even the grinding elements, there are days when I'm in the mood to just semi-mindlessly grind. Agree with you about battle/development over story, I tend to skip/ignore a lot of that. 

I think part of gaming is "gaming the game" - finding ways to break it, no?
Satanas

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Re:Strategy RPG Discussion - Friday, December 13, 2013 3:21 PM ( #6 )
Everyone has mentioned Valkyria Chronicles, but you did not in your original post. Which means that you probably haven't played it, or you didn't like it (I find this to be highly unlikely).

Go play that. I find many elements of SRPGs to be unimmersive and that game singlehandedly shattered the wall between myself and not only SRPGs, but JRPGs in general. While I am still hesitant when it comes to turn-based or any form of non-real-time combat really, Valkyria Chronicles showed me what you can do when you blend fantastic, engaging and immersive ideas with a genre all about careful planning, positioning and command point-spending.

The third person movement is by far the best feature of the game and opens you up to real time death traps that you must avoid, and the aiming of your shots further adds to the feeling that the way you control your character actually matters (which is important to me, and this something that JRPGs/SRPGs tend to not have as a consequence at all). Having a slightly poorly aligned shot could cost you if your character's aim is not excellent and you shoot at the extremities of the aiming reticle.

It has perma-death, excellent classes and customizations, and just excellent gameplay altogether. It can also be punishingly difficult, I can't do many of the Extra Hard and Hard Skirmishes.

It also has gorgeous graphics, great characters, a good story and a brilliant soundtrack. It was and is my favourite PS3 game.


Anyway, the only other SRPG I'm tempted to try out is Fire Emblem: Awakening. It's far more traditional than VC, but I like the battle animation sequences and a game that is fairly simple to control is preferable for handhelds a lot of the time, I find. I've yet to try the demo, but I'll get my feet wet with the series then.

I really like the idea of strategy, I just feel sometimes it can be an altogether unimmersive or despondent experience. My example here is Disgaea. I could never play that.
<message edited by Satanas on Friday, December 13, 2013 3:29 PM>
WildArmed

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Re:Strategy RPG Discussion - Friday, December 13, 2013 4:02 PM ( #7 )
Satanas


Everyone has mentioned Valkyria Chronicles, but you did not in your original post. Which means that you probably haven't played it, or you didn't like it (I find this to be highly unlikely).

Go play that. I find many elements of SRPGs to be unimmersive and that game singlehandedly shattered the wall between myself and not only SRPGs, but JRPGs in general. While I am still hesitant when it comes to turn-based or any form of non-real-time combat really, Valkyria Chronicles showed me what you can do when you blend fantastic, engaging and immersive ideas with a genre all about careful planning, positioning and command point-spending.

The third person movement is by far the best feature of the game and opens you up to real time death traps that you must avoid, and the aiming of your shots further adds to the feeling that the way you control your character actually matters (which is important to me, and this something that JRPGs/SRPGs tend to not have as a consequence at all). Having a slightly poorly aligned shot could cost you if your character's aim is not excellent and you shoot at the extremities of the aiming reticle.

It has perma-death, excellent classes and customizations, and just excellent gameplay altogether. It can also be punishingly difficult, I can't do many of the Extra Hard and Hard Skirmishes.

It also has gorgeous graphics, great characters, a good story and a brilliant soundtrack. It was and is my favourite PS3 game.


Anyway, the only other SRPG I'm tempted to try out is Fire Emblem: Awakening. It's far more traditional than VC, but I like the battle animation sequences and a game that is fairly simple to control is preferable for handhelds a lot of the time, I find. I've yet to try the demo, but I'll get my feet wet with the series then.

I really like the idea of strategy, I just feel sometimes it can be an altogether unimmersive or despondent experience. My example here is Disgaea. I could never play that.



I'm not going to lie, I 'cheated' many of those missions. I took two scouts, paired them up and ran all the way to the mission. In two turns, i'd complete the mission and avoid everything else... by the time the enemies reach my other units, the match would be over.

Man how I love VC, I wish we got more PS3 editions. PSP is just awkward to control (and not nearly as prettyyy)

Satanas

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Re:Strategy RPG Discussion - Friday, December 13, 2013 4:23 PM ( #8 )
WildArmed


I'm not going to lie, I 'cheated' many of those missions. I took two scouts, paired them up and ran all the way to the mission. In two turns, i'd complete the mission and avoid everything else... by the time the enemies reach my other units, the match would be over.

Man how I love VC, I wish we got more PS3 editions. PSP is just awkward to control (and not nearly as prettyyy)



Wait, you completed the Extra Hard skirmishes? I don't even understand how. You must be amazing at the game.


I don't consider getting to the goal to be cheating, either. You have to do that to get an A rank. I was able to A rank the first Hard skirmish but it was super, super hard. Just running to the end puts you in so much danger.


And yeah I hate that it went to PSP. It should have stayed on PS3, but sadly, no one played this game. Same fate befell Ni no Kuni. The PS3 has a lot of great games, but let's face it, people play Call of Duty. Nothing against COD, but most non-first-party PS3 exclusives just don't do well, and that's a shame to see. I mean I bought my PS3 so I could play the exclusives on it.
<message edited by Satanas on Friday, December 13, 2013 4:26 PM>
KozmoOchez

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Re:Strategy RPG Discussion - Saturday, December 14, 2013 12:24 AM ( #9 )
I did play Valkyria Chronicles, there were just too many for me to add at the time. I even played the PSP VC games. Also, I don't think it's cheating using the scouts to run to the end, it's basically the only way to get A and S rank on some of those missions. I wish that and/or Tactics can be revived, even if it's in the form of a spiritual successor and not an official remake like FFT was to Tactics Ogre.

Maybe FFTactics x Valkyria???
<message edited by KozmoOchez on Saturday, December 14, 2013 12:28 AM>

Satanas

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Re:Strategy RPG Discussion - Saturday, December 14, 2013 1:26 AM ( #10 )
KozmoOchez


I did play Valkyria Chronicles, there were just too many for me to add at the time. I even played the PSP VC games. Also, I don't think it's cheating using the scouts to run to the end, it's basically the only way to get A and S rank on some of those missions. I wish that and/or Tactics can be revived, even if it's in the form of a spiritual successor and not an official remake like FFT was to Tactics Ogre.

Maybe FFTactics x Valkyria???



I'd prefer no crossover, but just a new VC for like PS3 or 4 I guess. But I mean, it won't happen, these games just don't do well... unfortunately.
WildArmed

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Re:Strategy RPG Discussion - Saturday, December 14, 2013 2:25 AM ( #11 )
Satanas


Wait, you completed the Extra Hard skirmishes? I don't even understand how. You must be amazing at the game.


I don't consider getting to the goal to be cheating, either. You have to do that to get an A rank. I was able to A rank the first Hard skirmish but it was super, super hard. Just running to the end puts you in so much danger.


And yeah I hate that it went to PSP. It should have stayed on PS3, but sadly, no one played this game. Same fate befell Ni no Kuni. The PS3 has a lot of great games, but let's face it, people play Call of Duty. Nothing against COD, but most non-first-party PS3 exclusives just don't do well, and that's a shame to see. I mean I bought my PS3 so I could play the exclusives on it.



Haha, not so amazing. I spent like a day or so on every Ex-Hard ones. I have a very low chance of actually beating them. 

Satanas

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Re:Strategy RPG Discussion - Saturday, December 14, 2013 3:36 AM ( #12 )
WildArmed




Haha, not so amazing. I spent like a day or so on every Ex-Hard ones. I have a very low chance of actually beating them. 





I haven't ever played the 2 Edy missions or completed many of the Hard/Ex hard skirmishes. I am saving them for a later time. I know there will never be a new console based VC, but there's enough content remaining for me to feel like I still have more VC to play. I completely cleaned out the story mode and Selvaria's DLC with all A ranks and medals, though. But A ranking all Hard skirmishes...I don't think I will ever be successful.
WildArmed

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Re:Strategy RPG Discussion - Saturday, December 14, 2013 4:21 AM ( #13 )
Satanas


WildArmed




Haha, not so amazing. I spent like a day or so on every Ex-Hard ones. I have a very low chance of actually beating them. 





I haven't ever played the 2 Edy missions or completed many of the Hard/Ex hard skirmishes. I am saving them for a later time. I know there will never be a new console based VC, but there's enough content remaining for me to feel like I still have more VC to play. I completely cleaned out the story mode and Selvaria's DLC with all A ranks and medals, though. But A ranking all Hard skirmishes...I don't think I will ever be successful.



I haven't touched the DLC for Selvaria yet. Looking forward to that, I'm saving that for next year :D

Satanas

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Re:Strategy RPG Discussion - Saturday, December 14, 2013 6:54 PM ( #14 )
That Selvaria mission pack is my favourite DLC for any game that I can think of. For any platform.

Note: DLC, not expansion packs, so this excludes anything of the sort (ie. Diablo II Lord of Destruction is probably one of / the greatest expansion pack ever).
<message edited by Satanas on Saturday, December 14, 2013 6:55 PM>
Irishguy95

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Re:Strategy RPG Discussion - Saturday, December 14, 2013 7:19 PM ( #15 )
I second(maybe third or fourth) Valkyria Chron and Jeanne D'arc. FF Tactics as well/ Hmm, Suikoden doesn't really count does it? Since only a few of the battles are SRPG ones. Suikoden 2 though, any Jrpg fan should play it. Oh also -> Xcom. How'd I forget!?
<message edited by Irishguy95 on Saturday, December 14, 2013 7:23 PM>
Satanas

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Re:Strategy RPG Discussion - Saturday, December 14, 2013 8:44 PM ( #16 )
XCom is one of those unfortunate games I got via Steam for like $0. In this case, actually $0, because after preordering BioShock Infinite for like $33 and getting two free games with it (BioShock and Civ 5), sometime afterwards we were all also sent keys for XCOM from Green Man Gaming. Unfortunately when I acquire games in this manner they tend to be thought of more as afterthoughts and I usually feel more obligated to play the titles I dropped ~$60 on. It's a mental thing. I fear this crappy reason makes me not really feel like playing XCom, but one day I shall get to it. In my huge backlog of Steam games......

Also I don't particularly like the art style, unlike VC. That's probably an equally huge factor. When it comes to JRPGs/SRPGs I usually tolerate them a bit more when they have an anime-ish/bold and bright art style, like VC and Ni no.
<message edited by Satanas on Saturday, December 14, 2013 8:46 PM>
Irishguy95

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Re:Strategy RPG Discussion - Saturday, December 14, 2013 10:59 PM ( #17 )
I got the same deal :P . Got it free on Ps+ too. I always wanted to play the original(considering how many people called in the best game ever) but my PC wasn't old enough to play it. Then Enemy unknown comes out and it turns out to be really good apparently too. An angry Joe loves it -> Probably good. I gave it a shot anyway, really good game I think. One of the better of not one of the best S-Rpgs I think. Completely agree about the art style though. it's ****. Playing gravity rush right now which is eye candy.
Satanas

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Re:Strategy RPG Discussion - Saturday, December 14, 2013 11:03 PM ( #18 )
Irishguy95


I got the same deal :P . Got it free on Ps+ too. I always wanted to play the original(considering how many people called in the best game ever) but my PC wasn't old enough to play it. Then Enemy unknown comes out and it turns out to be really good apparently too. An angry Joe loves it -> Probably good. I gave it a shot anyway, really good game I think. One of the better of not one of the best S-Rpgs I think. Completely agree about the art style though. it's ****. Playing gravity rush right now which is eye candy.



Art style actually matters so much to me. I couldn't help but think of XCom as being this game with great VC like gameplay, but ugly. And half the charm of VC was its visual beauty.



EDIT: I think I'm going to just get Fire Emblem Awakening if I can find it used for cheap. Thinking that as a newcomer, Hard/Casual would be a good starting point. Any input here? I'm completely new to the series, and relatively inexperienced with SRPGs (minus VC) so I don't really want to deal with perma-death off the bat, but I've heard Normal gets too easy later and figured Hard could then be a better choice.
<message edited by Satanas on Saturday, December 14, 2013 11:51 PM>
KozmoOchez

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Re:Strategy RPG Discussion - Wednesday, December 18, 2013 9:36 PM ( #19 )
Satanas


Irishguy95


I got the same deal :P . Got it free on Ps+ too. I always wanted to play the original(considering how many people called in the best game ever) but my PC wasn't old enough to play it. Then Enemy unknown comes out and it turns out to be really good apparently too. An angry Joe loves it -> Probably good. I gave it a shot anyway, really good game I think. One of the better of not one of the best S-Rpgs I think. Completely agree about the art style though. it's ****. Playing gravity rush right now which is eye candy.



Art style actually matters so much to me. I couldn't help but think of XCom as being this game with great VC like gameplay, but ugly. And half the charm of VC was its visual beauty.



EDIT: I think I'm going to just get Fire Emblem Awakening if I can find it used for cheap. Thinking that as a newcomer, Hard/Casual would be a good starting point. Any input here? I'm completely new to the series, and relatively inexperienced with SRPGs (minus VC) so I don't really want to deal with perma-death off the bat, but I've heard Normal gets too easy later and figured Hard could then be a better choice.



Here's what I learned when trying to setup my FE Awakening game: If you REALLY want that extra challenge of never making a wrong move, play  hard. If you want to enjoy the battle system as is (at least on first playthrough) then play on normal. Now for the second selection - we all know that no one wants to lose a party member that they've spent hours training up, which means you'll be saving and restarting either way - why deal with the wasted time/headache? Just play on casual and enjoy the game for what it is. 


I had to filter through about an hour of forums and posts just to come to a conclusion that unless you are all about that e-peen, there's no reason to play on that hard/hardcore in that game, as there is no bonus for doing so. Also, use a strategy guide on the side quests - this game is similar to Final Fantasy games where you can miss VERY IMPORTANT "things" if you don't know what you are doing ahead of time. I missed out on a very awesome character b/c I didn't catch a certain "cue" during a cutscene and then I didn't look it up until much too late.


Also, the game on normal only gets too easy if you do immense amounts of grinding, which I'm fine with b/c I like being rewarded for my time spent grinding by owning the second half of a game. I hate grinding in SRPGs out of necessity

Satanas

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Re:Strategy RPG Discussion - Wednesday, December 18, 2013 10:43 PM ( #20 )
KozmoOchez


Here's what I learned when trying to setup my FE Awakening game: If you REALLY want that extra challenge of never making a wrong move, play  hard. If you want to enjoy the battle system as is (at least on first playthrough) then play on normal. Now for the second selection - we all know that no one wants to lose a party member that they've spent hours training up, which means you'll be saving and restarting either way - why deal with the wasted time/headache? Just play on casual and enjoy the game for what it is. 


I had to filter through about an hour of forums and posts just to come to a conclusion that unless you are all about that e-peen, there's no reason to play on that hard/hardcore in that game, as there is no bonus for doing so. Also, use a strategy guide on the side quests - this game is similar to Final Fantasy games where you can miss VERY IMPORTANT "things" if you don't know what you are doing ahead of time. I missed out on a very awesome character b/c I didn't catch a certain "cue" during a cutscene and then I didn't look it up until much too late.


Also, the game on normal only gets too easy if you do immense amounts of grinding, which I'm fine with b/c I like being rewarded for my time spent grinding by owning the second half of a game. I hate grinding in SRPGs out of necessity



I was told by a few friends to just start my first run on Normal/Casual since I have no idea how to play FE and it's a really fun game regardless of difficulty. And after reading your post, I feel like this is only reinforced. So that's what I'll do.


I've heard so many positive things about the game and it's so highly rated, so I just went ahead and ordered it. Really looking forward to it.
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